My sister tried to commit suicide today

[EasterJoy]

Ugh, my mother just called while I was posting that last post and while I declined to answer the phone, I still had to listen to the message. It all sounded so normal and nice, except for the badly-hidden barb about my declining her visit in October. Yuck.

Hang in there. The more you do this, the better you will handle it. Who knows, eventually you may even develop a sense of humor about her repeated tries to get under your skin or get you into her control.

Right now she is someone you are wary of, because you’re still learning how to cope with her. Some day, though, you’ll be the Road Runner, and she’ll only be Wile E. Coyote, Super Genius. Living well is the best revenge…

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Ugh, my mother just called while I was posting that last post and while I declined to answer the phone, I still had to listen to the message. It all sounded so normal and nice, except for the badly-hidden barb about my declining her visit in October. Yuck.

Turn down the volume on the answering machine. I am serious. Don’t listen, just delete the message when she’s done.

 

[mommamaree]

Turn down the volume on the answering machine. I am serious. Don’t listen, just delete the message when she’s done.

I can turn down the volume on the answering machine !? Why did I never know this before? Argh! :doh2:

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I can turn down the volume on the answering machine !? Why did I never know this before? Argh! :doh2:

Well, I can, on mine. It seems to have a “mute” button. Or, some of them have a function where the phone doesn’t even ring, it just goes to a message saying, “We’re not able to take your call right now, please try again later” and doesn’t even take a message.

 

[Cerne]

She does not seem to understand social norms, personal boundaries, truth, responsibilities and consequences.

The above are absolutely classic symptoms of someone with a personality disorder.

Have a read of these 4 web pages and you will see lots of listings on how these types of people regularly violate other peoples boundaries, act outside of social norms and do not seem to understand consequences.

bullyonline.org/workbully/faq.htm
bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm
bullyonline.org/workbully/myths.htm
bullyonline.org/workbully/bully.htm

The entire bullyonline site will give you lots of explanation of these types of people and I have no doubt many of the behaviors listed will match closely with what you have experienced.

 

[mommamaree]

The above are absolutely classic symptoms of someone with a personality disorder.

Have a read of these 4 web pages and you will see lots of listings on how these types of people regularly violate other peoples boundaries, act outside of social norms and do not seem to understand consequences.

bullyonline.org/workbully/faq.htm
bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm
bullyonline.org/workbully/myths.htm
bullyonline.org/workbully/bully.htm

The entire bullyonline site will give you lots of explanation of these types of people and I have no doubt many of the behaviors listed will match closely with what you have experienced.

Thanks for the links, Cerne. The information there did help, although sometimes I was a bit confused about the subject since the website is devoted to workplace bullying. I got the overall picture, however, of a person who behaves much the same way as my mother has, but within a different setting.
The difficulty for me now is that I cannot figure out if I am dealing with a narcissist or a sociopath. My husband is quite sure she is a sociopath. Either way, it is a bad situation, and my mind and heart is rebelling against the notion that my own mother may not love me, may not ever really have loved me, because she is incapable of love.
She herself has frequently lamented that she doesn’t feel loved, and she is desperate to know what love feels like (making herself out to be quite the victim while she continues to treat me in an unloving fashion). She ignores or belittles my attempts to show her love, unless she is manipulating me into a very difficult situation where I must make a grand display of affection that is practically impossible to accomplish (long story, but the story of my entire life). She tells me to my face that my treatment of her and consideration for her is inadequate, but she tells me this as if she is not speaking to the person she is speaking about, but instead to a trusted confidante. As in, she “confides” in me that no one loves her and considers her feelings, including her very own children, who didn’t do anything grand for her birthday, and how much it hurts that her own children do not do more to show they care. Saying this to me. Her eldest daughter. About whom she is speaking horribly. Like I am not there or like I am someone else. Like I should become indignant about such ill treatment (which is always untrue).
Maybe I should start a different thread about this, since obviously, my sister did NOT really attempt suicide and it was all a huge joke and an opportunity to manipulate everyone into a “how much do you love me?” dash. Which tactic she learned at the knee of our mother, of course.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Thanks for the links, Cerne. The information there did help, although sometimes I was a bit confused about the subject since the website is devoted to workplace bullying. I got the overall picture, however, of a person who behaves much the same way as my mother has, but within a different setting.
The difficulty for me now is that I cannot figure out if I am dealing with a narcissist or a sociopath. My husband is quite sure she is a sociopath. Either way, it is a bad situation, and my mind and heart is rebelling against the notion that my own mother may not love me, may not ever really have loved me, because she is incapable of love.
She herself has frequently lamented that she doesn’t feel loved, and she is desperate to know what love feels like (making herself out to be quite the victim while she continues to treat me in an unloving fashion). She ignores or belittles my attempts to show her love, unless she is manipulating me into a very difficult situation where I must make a grand display of affection that is practically impossible to accomplish (long story, but the story of my entire life). She tells me to my face that my treatment of her and consideration for her is inadequate, but she tells me this as if she is not speaking to the person she is speaking about, but instead to a trusted confidante. As in, she “confides” in me that no one loves her and considers her feelings, including her very own children, who didn’t do anything grand for her birthday, and how much it hurts that her own children do not do more to show they care. Saying this to me. Her eldest daughter. About whom she is speaking horribly. Like I am not there or like I am someone else. Like I should become indignant about such ill treatment (which is always untrue).
Maybe I should start a different thread about this, since obviously, my sister did NOT really attempt suicide and it was all a huge joke and an opportunity to manipulate everyone into a “how much do you love me?” dash. Which tactic she learned at the knee of our mother, of course.

There have been several threads on NPD, narcissistic personality disorder, and I believe on BPD too, but it might be time for another one. Your mother certainly sounds (and this is not a psychiatric diagnosis) messed up. It is very odd that she tells you things about her children AS THOUGH you were not one of that group! Disassociation? Very odd…

Just from what you’ve said, your mother could be NPD or BPD. The categories of NPD and sociopath get blurry at times - all sociopaths are narcissists but there are degrees of that and at least some narcissists are not too malignant, just rather obnoxious. But there is a line where it becomes sociopathic. Serial murderers, for example. And then there is psychopathic. All of these categories may overlap and apply to the same individual.

I know it is hard to take when you realize that your own parent really doesn’t care about you, because she can’t really care about anyone but herself. I have this problem in a relative and one of my dearest loved ones cannot face this reality, and so keeps trying over and over to extract love from this person who cannot possibly ever love in return. It is sad, tragic, and painful to watch. I have made the mistake of trying to point it out to my loved one, but it is as though I start speaking in Swahili or something - my loving words just don’t make an impact. So I have to watch as their relationship goes on and on and causes more pain…

I highly recommend therapy with someone who knows about NPD and BPD in family members. There’s a lot you need to discuss and get some real understanding on.

 

[EasterJoy]

There have been several threads on NPD, narcissistic personality disorder, and I believe on BPD too, but it might be time for another one. Your mother certainly sounds (and this is not a psychiatric diagnosis) messed up. It is very odd that she tells you things about her children AS THOUGH you were not one of that group! Disassociation? Very odd…

Just from what you’ve said, your mother could be NPD or BPD. The categories of NPD and sociopath get blurry at times - all sociopaths are narcissists but there are degrees of that and at least some narcissists are not too malignant, just rather obnoxious. But there is a line where it becomes sociopathic. Serial murderers, for example. And then there is psychopathic. All of these categories may overlap and apply to the same individual.

I know it is hard to take when you realize that your own parent really doesn’t care about you, because she can’t really care about anyone but herself. I have this problem in a relative and one of my dearest loved ones cannot face this reality, and so keeps trying over and over to extract love from this person who cannot possibly ever love in return. It is sad, tragic, and painful to watch. I have made the mistake of trying to point it out to my loved one, but it is as though I start speaking in Swahili or something - my loving words just don’t make an impact. So I have to watch as their relationship goes on and on and causes more pain…

I highly recommend therapy with someone who knows about NPD and BPD in family members. There’s a lot you need to discuss and get some real understanding on.

I’ve also gotten a lot of mileage out of Melody Beattie’s “Co-Dependent No More”.

The great thing to realize when reading literature about addiction and mental disorders is that it does not take a label on a person to recognize how to handle a situation. For instance: the mother who talks to a child about her childhood as if the child was not present for it…mothers and children who wouldn’t garner a label from a professional can try to run a “re-manufactured memory” past a young family member, too! What some people need to learn in order to survive can still be quite useful to others, who need to know for reasons that are less catastrophic if they don’t catch on, but who can profit, all the same.

You don’t have to be dealing with an alcoholic to profit from what families who do deal with alcoholics absolutely must do in order to survive. You don’t have to be dealing with a sociopath to profit from being able to recognize manipulation, deny success to manipulative tactics, and yet avoid provoking a vindictive response in the person who tried to run a manipulation on you. There are important differences to recognize, true–you will not be successful if you treat a person with ADHD as if they had the same brain wiring as anyone else–but the commonalities are instructive, too. Human nature is a continuum, after all, and we all have our days.

 

[LZ2000]

I will pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet for you repeatedly.

 

[datritle]

I’m sorry to hear this… Your family is in my prayers.