Need assistance in this evangelization

[kattyc]

I came across an interesting thread the other day that bothered me for its inaccuracy as well as saddened me that this person truly believes these fallacies about the Catholic church. I would really like to respond to him because when I read through the comments, many Catholics were (justifiably) angry, no one gave him the facts. He even asked several times for someone to tell him why this was wrong. But I need some help. I am not an apologist. I know my statements need to be calm, gentle, and based in scripture because this is the only way he will be able to even possibly accept what I have to say. Sadly his sources are his “Catholic friends” and a priest who has abandoned his vows.

I would really appreciate any help in responding to these incorrect beliefs.

Here is a copy of the thread (datehookup.com/Thread-1004060.htm)

The Catholic Church Keeps Its Members In Spiritual Bondage

From all the years of talking to Catholic friends and being on Christian websites chats, I have seen a real difference in the my beliefs and those of the Catholics I have known. We like to discuss the areas were we do not agree and this is a partial list of those differences.

1. The Catholics put the Catholic Church first in their life as their protector and guide for life.

As a Christian, I put the Lord Jesus Christ first in my life  ahead of family and church. He has a roadmap for my life and I try to  listen to Him and walk by His side or in His footsteps.

1. A personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ to my Catholic friends means attending Mass and having communion and eating the Lords flesh and drinking His blood. They say you cannot get any closer relationship that that.

I have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ by  reading Gods Word the Bible and praying continually to our Lord Jesus  Christ  for His guidance and protection.

1. A Catholic baby is baptized into the Catholic Church for life and they are baptized with remission of original sin.

 When we accept the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior at an age of  accountability, we make our own decision to follow Christ as did the  multitude  of 3,000 mentioned in the Bible.  Only those that made a  decision for the Lord were baptized.

1. The Catholic Church has many rituals that must be apart of being saved. Attending classes on the church policies are all a part of keeping Catholics under church control or they can be banned from the church for life. One Catholic friend was about to end his life when I met him as the Catholic Church had told him to leave as he was not worthy of being a Catholic any longer.

 Man made churches are just that full of errors but  only our  Lord Jesus Christ is the only perfect answer to our living a Christian  life as we have a personal relationship with Him not the Church.

1. My Catholic Priest friend that no longer is a priest tells me Purgatory in the Catholic Church is a way to raise money as most churches charge the family up $350 for the priest to pray a family member the rest of the way to heaven.

 I feel the Bible is very clear when it says as a Christian- To  be absent from the body is to be home with the Lord, that is our  spiritual body.  Our physical body will meet the Lord during the rapture  and we will be home for ever in heaven with our Lord.

1. The Catholic Church feels we need a man to be the go between us and God, so they give confessions to the priest to past on to the God for his forgiveness. Most Catholics I know do not have any idea how to pray.

  We with a personal relationship with the Lord,  knowing that  we still sin in our daily lives here on earth,  ask the Lord to forgive  us of our sins.  This is something we do on a daily basis as the Lord  Jesus Christ says no man goes to the Father but by me.

1. Prayer to Catholics is something they let the priest do as He is a man of God and they do not know how to pray except in Catholic Prayer books in mass. Reading Gods Word the Bible is not something a Catholic looks forward to so they attend Mass regularly and have the priest intrepid the Bible for them.

  As Christians we go through our Lord Jesus Christ with our  prayers to Him and His Father God.   A personal relationship with the  Lord is built on reading the Bible Gods Word and praying often for  guidance from our Lord.  Our plans we may think are really great but the  Lord has a better direction for us we if we only open our hears and  listen.

1. Once a Catholic always a Catholic is pounded into its members from birth till they are laid in the grave. They have rituals for everything, Rosary praying to Mary mother of Jesus and its Rosary beads, Holy water applied to the dying. and candles for sacrifices which families buy. Where does it end?

 Churches are mans  and  like all things of man have errors. We  should not look to church leaders, other Christians, or friends for they  can fail us in our time of need,  Sure they are temporary help but the  lasting help is our  gracious and loving Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.   He never changes and is our best friend for eternity.  We can call him  in prayer at any time and His phone is never too busy to answer our  call.

Let us praise our Lord Jesus Christ for all the blessings He has given us in the past and all the blessing He will give us in the future. Lord Jesus you are first in my life and always will be till you call me home.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

After reviewing the first two pages of the link you sent, You can search for each of the topics mentioned here at Catholic forums and come up with answers and clarifications for each. I don’t think he’s looking for an answer though.

Good for you for wanting to learn more about your faith.

 

[JRKH]

We can try to give you some help here but I also suggest that you maybe invite that person here to discuss these things…

1. The Catholics put the Catholic Church first in their life as their protector and guide for life.

As a Christian, I put the Lord Jesus Christ first in my life ahead of family and church. He has a roadmap for my life and I try to listen to Him and walk by His side or in His footsteps.

1. A personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ to my Catholic friends means attending Mass and having communion and eating the Lords flesh and drinking His blood. They say you cannot get any closer relationship that that.

I have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ by reading Gods Word the Bible and praying continually to our Lord Jesus Christ for His guidance and protection.

Points one and two here share a common error. They separate the believer from the community through this “personal relationship” and "sola Scriptura’ view. This is unbiblical. Jesus established a community and gave that community authority to bind and loose (Mt 16:17-19 and Mt 18:15-18) Mt 18 is very clear that we are to use the Church to settle disagreements among Christians - that we are to “tell it to the Church” and then “listen to the Church”. That authority is demonstrated in Act 15.
These instructions, example and authority are clearly stated in the “roadmap” (bible) that your friend refers to. So - in using the roadmap given us for the purpose of putting Jesus FIRST in our lives, we are led to His universal (one) visible and authoritative Church. Simple as that.

As for taking communion…his comments here are fine…he is just simply not availing himself of one of the greatest sources of grace available to us. Again - it not a false separation, it is the most biblical of acts.

1. A Catholic baby is baptized into the Catholic Church for life and they are baptized with remission of original sin.

When we accept the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior at an age of accountability, we make our own decision to follow Christ as did the multitude of 3,000 mentioned in the Bible. Only those that made a decision for the Lord were baptized.

Well - this can get a little tricky. I would simply explain that the Catholics have the Sacrament of confirmation which is administered after the age of accountability is reached. Thus the person, previously baptized as an infant, makes a personal profession and the Holy Spirit is conferred on them.

1. The Catholic Church has many rituals that must be apart of being saved. Attending classes on the church policies are all a part of keeping Catholics under church control or they can be banned from the church for life. One Catholic friend was about to end his life when I met him as the Catholic Church had told him to leave as he was not worthy of being a Catholic any longer.

Man made churches are just that full of errors but only our Lord Jesus Christ is the only perfect answer to our living a Christian life as we have a personal relationship with Him not the Church.

We cannot address the matter of his friend without knowing the particulars. As to the matter of rituals necessary for salvation…he would need name them and then you can address the particulars of each.

1. My Catholic Priest friend that no longer is a priest tells me Purgatory in the Catholic Church is a way to raise money as most churches charge the family up $350 for the priest to pray a family member the rest of the way to heaven.

I feel the Bible is very clear when it says as a Christian- To be absent from the body is to be home with the Lord, that is our spiritual body. Our physical body will meet the Lord during the rapture and we will be home for ever in heaven with our Lord.

Well here the issue is purgatory - a long standing and bible referenced doctrine. If he is interested in reading about the Church teaching on purgatory we can supply references to the catechism - which references the Bible.
As to the accusation about charges for prayers…I know of no priests or churches who charge for prayers…though they do accept stipends. Unless…what is being referred to is the cost of a funeral mass. But that money is for the organist, for Father’s time and other costs incurred by the Church (utilities etc).

(Cont)

 

[JRKH]

(Cont)

1. The Catholic Church feels we need a man to be the go between us and God, so they give confessions to the priest to past on to the God for his forgiveness. Most Catholics I know do not have any idea how to pray.

We with a personal relationship with the Lord, knowing that we still sin in our daily lives here on earth, ask the Lord to forgive us of our sins. This is something we do on a daily basis as the Lord Jesus Christ says no man goes to the Father but by me.

John 20:23 says, “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” These are the words of my personal Lord and Savior to the Apostles.
Now I ask…how shall the Apostles (or their successors) forgive or retain, if they do not know what the sins are? In order for them to fulfill the command of Christ, contained tin that “roadmap” referred to earlier, we must confess to them.

1. Prayer to Catholics is something they let the priest do as He is a man of God and they do not know how to pray except in Catholic Prayer books in mass. Reading Gods Word the Bible is not something a Catholic looks forward to so they attend Mass regularly and have the priest intrepid the Bible for them.

As Christians we go through our Lord Jesus Christ with our prayers to Him and His Father God. A personal relationship with the Lord is built on reading the Bible Gods Word and praying often for guidance from our Lord. Our plans we may think are really great but the Lord has a better direction for us we if we only open our hears and listen.

Simply not true. If he has 'Catholic" friends who tell him such things he is talking to very poorly informed Catholics.

1. Once a Catholic always a Catholic is pounded into its members from birth till they are laid in the grave. They have rituals for everything, Rosary praying to Mary mother of Jesus and its Rosary beads, Holy water applied to the dying. and candles for sacrifices which families buy. Where does it end?

Churches are mans and like all things of man have errors. We should not look to church leaders, other Christians, or friends for they can fail us in our time of need, Sure they are temporary help but the lasting help is our gracious and loving Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He never changes and is our best friend for eternity. We can call him in prayer at any time and His phone is never too busy to answer our call.

Again - his view here is quite unbiblical. We ARE to look to Church leaders - or more specifically to Church teaching. Jesus has told us this quite clearly.

Let us praise our Lord Jesus Christ for all the blessings He has given us in the past and all the blessing He will give us in the future. Lord Jesus you are first in my life and always will be till you call me home.

Finally - a thoroughly correct Catholic statement.

the above are just short quips in response to his comments. In truth what you have is an Evangelical who is poorly informed by poorly informed Catholics…up to and including this supposed priest.

I would strongly suggest that you take just one or two of the core items above and address those…leave the rest alone. Also suggest to him that if he wants to know what the Church REALLY teaches he have a look at the CCC. He can search for any particular topic by using the search engine at the bottom of the page.

And I likewise advise that if you plan to engage this person in discussion, you reference the Catechism extensively yourself. That way you are sure to present only Church teaching.

He will wish to present mostly bible quotes which is fine…we have no fear of the bible.

All of that said though…His best bet - If he is truly interested - is to come over here and charitably ask the questions.

Peace
James

 

[Semper_Zelare]

I find it’s never worth responding to a whole litany of attacks like this.

Why? Because, even after being successful in arguing one of the points… they’ll just turn to (in this case one of their other 7). I’ve had atheists throw out a spew of 15 or 20 reasons why the Catholic Church is evil/ corrupt/ untrue.

But, even after factually disproving some of their claims. Their minds haven’t been swayed at all. So, the conclusion is… whatever they wish to include in their litany of attacks on the Church… those are not actually the reasons that they dislike the Church.

I don’t really know if we can convert people intellectually in argument. I think people need to want Jesus and the Church first. Then, if they have theological hang ups…they will overcome those in discernment; just like many Protestants do in RCIA. But, they already know and love the Lord, and they don’t come to RCIA hating the Church.

So, the issue is ultimately one of the heart, and not the head. And, in my opinion, we can’t reach peoples’ hearts on the internet. Enemies of Christ can go on the internet and use it as a place to attack Christians… but they’re still going to be stuck in their enmity.

The internet isn’t really a good place to reach their hearts, and show them the love of Christ. The New Evangelization does not mean bringing the Catholic faith to others via new means of mass communication and technology. It is about re-newing evangelism in countries that were once Christian, but should now be viewed just as pagan as St. Patrick viewed Ireland.

 

[Highwayhound]

I came across an interesting thread the other day that bothered me for its inaccuracy as well as saddened me that this person truly believes these fallacies about the Catholic church. I would really like to respond to him because when I read through the comments, many Catholics were (justifiably) angry, no one gave him the facts.

I can understand how this saddened you. Those that felt anger need to practice the virtue of patience in this case. A long time ago I worked with a man painting a house. He had similar views that your friend expresses. By being patient with him and occasionally dropping a few well placed ideas he slowly caught on to the fact that I was Catholic. He asked, “You are Catholic, right?” and told me that I did not respond like a Catholic. He walked away that day having learned a positive lesson about Catholics.

I am not an apologist.

You are now

I know my statements need to be calm, gentle, and based in scripture because this is the only way he will be able to even possibly accept what I have to say. Sadly his sources are his “Catholic friends” and a priest who has abandoned his vows.

I would really appreciate any help in responding to these incorrect beliefs.

The Bible Made Me Do It would be a good resource. It is the conversion story of Tim Staples (a former Baptist). A catholic friend used the Bible to lead Tim to the Church.

What Catholics Really Believe is a DVD by Ray Guarendi and Fr. Fete. It addresses some of the points.

The Beginning Apologetics booklets a good source for a new apologist such as yourself. shop.catholicapologetics.com/

Lest I forget if you go to Catholic.com 's home page and look under ‘READ’ you will find a wealth of info to help you in your mission. A suggestion would be to read one tract every time you log on to Catholic Answers and before you know it you will have depth of knowledge. catholic.com/tracts

A few other thoughts would be for you to understand the history of the Bible so that you can, at the right time, point out to your friend that he basing his points on a book that was put together under the authority of the same church he is speaking against. Talk about a load of irony

Do you know where the Lord’s Prayer is in the bible? Jesus commands us to pray it. Yet it is amazing how many Christians over look this clear statement that Jesus made. Catholics every Sunday pray it (at least once). usccb.org/bible/matthew/6

The more you know about your faith the more confident and patient you can be with your friend. I hope this helps you and your friend. Please post updates if there are any.

God bless