Need documentation on Miracle of Lanciano

  • Thread starter Thread starter JaKael02
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

JaKael02

Guest
Good afternoon,

I have a relative that is Catholic but does not believe in the real presense. I presented the Miracle of Lanciano and it does not change the persons mind. I do not want to present Catholic source material for my argument because it may weaken the argument. I want to present a solid scientific case and this will require the actual medical sources.

I am looking for the source documentation on the miracle. I am aware that Dr. Edoardo Linoli did a report in 1971 and the WHO verified the study in 1973 and published it in 1976.

Is anywhere aware of links or how I can access these Medical documents to strengthen my argument? (Please no wikipedia, realpresence.org, etc.)

I’ve visited this site but am unable to locate the body of the study.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=miracle%20of%20lanciano

Thank you,

James
 
I think that you are out of luck. They were edited in the journal of an Italian pharmacological company, Sclavo, that was closed or was acquired by someone else. I spent sometime searching for the originals in Italian but I did not come out with any useful information through the web.
 
If you find the evidence you are looking for, I doubt it will do any good.

Many religions have “documented” miracles. I have seen pretty convincing evidence that Hindu idols “drink” milk. I have no idea what is really going on - but I have never seriously thought about converting to Hinduism because of these “miracles.”

It may be more effective to find out WHY this relative doesn’t believe - what is the underlying reason for this doubt? Maybe this person has a completely distorted idea of the doctrine itself. I knew one person who was struggling with this, and I came to find out that the person had somehow been taught carnalism (a heresy, actually). This is the belief that the bread/wine become flesh and blood in every way, but God tricks our senses into perceiving the outward appearance of bread and wine. Gaaaa!

There are many reasons why someone might come to doubt the Real Presence, and the Church has reasonable answers to all of those doubts (without needing to resort to any miracle other than transubstantiation itself).
 
JaKael02 said:
Good afternoon,

I have a relative that is Catholic but does not believe in the real presense. I presented the Miracle of Lanciano and it does not change the persons mind. I do not want to present Catholic source material for my argument because it may weaken the argument. I want to present a solid scientific case and this will require the actual medical sources.

I am looking for the source documentation on the miracle. I am aware that Dr. Edoardo Linoli did a report in 1971 and the WHO verified the study in 1973 and published it in 1976.

Is anywhere aware of links or how I can access these Medical documents to strengthen my argument? (Please no wikipedia, realpresence.org, etc.)

I’ve visited this site but am unable to locate the body of the study.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=miracle%20of%20lanciano

Thank you,

James
Click to expand...
James, such miracles will strengthen the Faith of those who already believe, but to use them as proof for those who do not can be a difficult task - as your are discovering. Although this relative may identify himself as a Catholic, is he a regular participant in the life of the Church or has he left the Church? If the former, then you must alert him to the spiritual danger of receiving the Eucharist in his present state of unbelief. If he considers himself a practicing Catholic, then a book by Mark Shea, This Is My Body, might be helpful to him in demonstrating the various Scriptural warrants for the Catholic faith in the Eucharist.

You’re no doubt aware that Lanciano is only one of many such miracles; this website might offer some help to you. God bless you in your efforts!

therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html
 
Cristiano said:
I think that you are out of luck. They were edited in the journal of an Italian pharmacological company, Sclavo, that was closed or was acquired by someone else. I spent sometime searching for the originals in Italian but I did not come out with any useful information through the web.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I believe you are right. It is NOWHERE to be found on the internet. I searched for an hour before posting this thread. This gives me confidence that I was not just overlooking it.

Thank you,

James
 
DavidFilmer said:
It may be more effective to find out WHY this relative doesn’t believe - what is the underlying reason for this doubt? Maybe this person has a completely distorted idea of the doctrine itself.
Click to expand...
David,

Thanks for the feedback. You are right, I will dig deeper into what aspect the person does not believe. I did allow this person to borrow Tim Staples “This Is My Body” debate CD. It didn’t help because this person came out on the Protestant side of the debate.

I’ll dig deeper and see if I can’t tackle the concerns from that angle.

Thanks,

James
 
FCEGM said:
Although this relative may identify himself as a Catholic, is he a regular participant in the life of the Church or has he left the Church?
Click to expand...
Attends Mass 3x/month. Not devout. I’d label them a Catholic because that is how this person was raised, but I could see going Non-denominational any month now.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I let the person borrow Tim Staples “This Is My Body” debate CD. It didn’t help. I’ll take alternative approach at this point, including prayer.

Thank you. - James
 
JaKael02 said:
David,

Thanks for the feedback. You are right, I will dig deeper into what aspect the person does not believe. I did allow this person to borrow Tim Staples “This Is My Body” debate CD. It didn’t help because this person came out on the Protestant side of the debate.

I’ll dig deeper and see if I can’t tackle the concerns from that angle.

Thanks,

James
Click to expand...
Post 3 does have an excellent approach.

If you go back to the link www.therealpresence.org, please read the “Catechesis on Eucharistic Miracles, Which Aspects Should be Emphasized?”

I am only guessing, but you may need to change your approach away from the scientific documentation of the “Extraordinary Phenomenon” in order to adapt to what you discern from David’s approach.

“Extraordinary Phenomenon” is how some Italian scientists approach a miracle. In addition, in my humble opinion, it is o.k. to build from a Protestant position.
 
grannymh said:
Post 3 does have an excellent approach.

If you go back to the link www.therealpresence.org, please read the “Catechesis on Eucharistic Miracles, Which Aspects Should be Emphasized?”

I am only guessing, but you may need to change your approach away from the scientific documentation of the “Extraordinary Phenomenon” in order to adapt to what you discern from David’s approach.

“Extraordinary Phenomenon” is how some Italian scientists approach a miracle. In addition, in my humble opinion, it is o.k. to build from a Protestant position.
Click to expand...
Yeah I am going to take that approach. Hopefully it plants a seed. Cathechesis is so essential now days.
 
spiritofadoration.home.comcast.net/~spiritofadoration/Adorationissue1.pdf

christianorder.com/features/features_2006/features_apr06.html <at bottom

**OCTOBER 1995 VISIT OF POPE JPII TO BALTIMORE, MD - ST. MARY’S SEMINARY CHAPEL - POLICE DOGS INDICATE HUMAN PRESENCE IN TABERNACLE
**

TRUE? The headline above is mine (summarizes the story). Police may affirm this search for you.

This might be of interest and approaches the story in a new way.
It is not listed as a Eucharistic Miracle … but for your purposes might be better.

The witnesses are not Catholic. They had no ax to grind. They were German Shepherd
Police Dogs specifically trained to detect human presence in a facility for security purposes.

The do what they do. To secure a church for the Pope’s visit, police released the dogs
into the church. Working on scent such dogs can find a living human presence hiding behind a wall, under the floor and other unseen places.

If you wanted to do the research on this story, 1995 isn’t TOO far back. The Baltimore Police might have records of that search, or who conducted it for your interview.

It does not prove a miracle or represent a scientific exam of the Baltimore Eucharist that day. The Eucharist didn’t bleed. But the dogs’ testimony was true to their training (THERE … there is someone THERE!).
Excerpted from above link

**During a recent homily a priest told an interesting story of Pope John Paul’s visit to the Baltimore area in 1995:

The Pope was scheduled for a quick trip by the local seminary. But even though it was not scheduled, he wanted to go in and pray at their chapel. So a security team and German Shepherd canine unit that was specially trained to find human beings - using their superior sense of smell, like the ones used after the September 11 attack to find people in the rubble - were sent to search for people hiding in the various rooms.

They searched the halls and rooms and found nothing, and then were sent into the chapel where the Pope intended to pray.

*They sniffed in all the aisles and then came to the tabernacle which held the consecrated Hosts. The dogs sniffed and pointed, indicating that they sensed a human being present in the holy tabernacle, and would not leave until their handlers called them off.
*
This was witnessed by over ten security people.
  • From The Wanderer**
bettnet.com/blog/index.php/weblog/comments/police_dogs_recognize_christ_in_the_eucharist/ < Same story, more details

msa.md.gov/megafile/msa/speccol/sc3500/sc3520/014200/014284/html/sun9oct1995.html <Detailed chronology of Pope’s 10 hours in Baltimore. Baltimore Sun.

this does not mention the security sweep with the dogs, but affirms JPII went to that Seminary, and the date would be October 8 or 9 (depending upon whether the article was published same day for evening - or for the next day’s issue). Good hunting. Besides the Baltimore PD, the Seminary’s security folks may remember the incident, and perhaps that Baltimore Sun writer too (who may still be there - and might even do your work for you if
he thought it was worth another story - sometimes papers revisit famous events in their city on their anniversaries so - he might revisit the 10/9/95 article with this sidebar.
 
Captfun,

I read the links & your commentary. I enjoyed the police dog search & sniff story. That is very intriguing. Your other links were insightful as well. I never heard of them before. There are so many stories of inspiration and faith building that Christ gives us to draw us closer to him at every Mass.

Thank you again,

James
 
FCEGM said:
James, such miracles will strengthen the Faith of those who already believe, but to use them as proof for those who do not can be a difficult task - as your are discovering. Although this relative may identify himself as a Catholic, is he a regular participant in the life of the Church or has he left the Church? If the former, then you must alert him to the spiritual danger of receiving the Eucharist in his present state of unbelief. If he considers himself a practicing Catholic, then a book by Mark Shea, This Is My Body, might be helpful to him in demonstrating the various Scriptural warrants for the Catholic faith in the Eucharist.

You’re no doubt aware that Lanciano is only one of many such miracles; this website might offer some help to you. God bless you in your efforts!

therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html
Click to expand...
Actually, these miracles ARE for those who do not believe. Read about all those atheists Doctors who saw the Miracluous Lourdes water heal their patients and how they became instantly convinced of the True faith.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top