Need Guidance

[PrayerfulNOLA]

Good afternoon all.

I am a divorced father of two. Since my divorce I have fallen in love with a wonderful woman who has been a long time friend of mine. She has been absolutely amazing to both me and my children. Our relationship has been everything I could have hoped for and more!!!

She and I got engaged about a month ago, and we decided to wait for completion of my pending annulment that I filed in march before proceeding with our wedding planning. It is both of our desires to be married within the church. (On a side note…my past marriage was convalidated a few years ago, but I discovered afterward that an extramarital relationship had endured since six months prior to our convalidation.)

It has already been a source of struggle for us to remain patient while the process takes course, particularly after being requested by a member of the tribunal to enlist my ex-wife’s participation in the process who now seems to be somewhat indifferent about going to the interview. However, my fiancé and I have recently made the problem a bit more difficult on ourselves by possibly creating a new life to add to our soon to be family. While we had discussed and both wanted children, the timing of our new creation is a tad disordered.

I am in much need of guidance and prayers as we process things and look to move forward with our new addition. Can anyone comment on whether or not we should be receiving Communion?? Can anyone comment on the best path forward for marriage as my divorce agreement has a morality clause that I’ll have no I married overnight guests?? I realize the magnitude of our actions, but it is all set in motion now. Our current concern is only for the health and happiness of my 2 preschoolers and of our newborn-in-process.

Luckily I have an amazing teammate who is willing to find a path forward together. We just need whatever advice and prayers our family in Christ has to offer.

 

[Rachel126]

My understanding is that no, you shouldn’t receive communion as you are presently (at least from an objective standpoint) not in a state of grace (having had extra-marital relations). I believe the priests over on the Ask an Apologist forum have stated that for someone in your position, you can go to confession and then receive Holy Communion so long as you and your intended “live as brother and sister” (meaning, not having relations) until the annulment comes through and you get married in the Church.
If i am wrong, someone feel free to correct me.

 

[EasterJoy]

Talk to your pastor. You need the advice and support of someone who has both pastoral care over you and the ability to lay a hand on your shoulder. Hang in there!

(I wouldn’t discuss this with the world in general, but when you do discuss it with those who have business to know about it, lay off the side-stepping euphemisms. It is better to say “I know it was wrong” than to resort to phrases like “a tad disordered”. Either “disordered” or “a tad”, but not both at once…and probably better that you use neither. Just say “right” or “wrong”, and leave it at that. Blunt but brief will feel better, I think, than any effort to gloss things over.)

 

[George_Stegmeir]

Good afternoon all.

I am a divorced father of two. Since my divorce I have fallen in love with a wonderful woman who has been a long time friend of mine. She has been absolutely amazing to both me and my children. Our relationship has been everything I could have hoped for and more!!!

She and I got engaged about a month ago, and we decided to wait for completion of my pending annulment that I filed in march before proceeding with our wedding planning. It is both of our desires to be married within the church. (On a side note…my past marriage was convalidated a few years ago, but I discovered afterward that an extramarital relationship had endured since six months prior to our convalidation.)

It has already been a source of struggle for us to remain patient while the process takes course, particularly after being requested by a member of the tribunal to enlist my ex-wife’s participation in the process who now seems to be somewhat indifferent about going to the interview. However, my fiancé and I have recently made the problem a bit more difficult on ourselves by possibly creating a new life to add to our soon to be family. While we had discussed and both wanted children, the timing of our new creation is a tad disordered.

I am in much need of guidance and prayers as we process things and look to move forward with our new addition. Can anyone comment on whether or not we should be receiving Communion?? Can anyone comment on the best path forward for marriage as my divorce agreement has a morality clause that I’ll have no I married overnight guests?? I realize the magnitude of our actions, but it is all set in motion now. Our current concern is only for the health and happiness of my 2 preschoolers and of our newborn-in-process.

Luckily I have an amazing teammate who is willing to find a path forward together. We just need whatever advice and prayers our family in Christ has to offer.

Only a Priest can advise you whether or not you should be receiving Holy Communion.
I strongly suggest that you and your intended make an appointment to meet with a priest either as a couple or singly and discuss your situation.
I do not think you are able to get a satisfactory answer to your query otherwise. Laypersons are simply not qualified to answer your question. You mit get answers that you agree with, but that does not necessarily mean that that answer is right. The answer you get face-to face will be right.

 

[MJJean]

I so feel for you! I was married, divorced, remarried to a cradle Catholic who had fallen away. When my husband returned to the Church, I went to Mass, loved it, and decided to convert. I finished my annulment application and it was submitted a few weeks ago. They say it will take about a year assuming no SNAFU’s. Time is absolutely dragging!

No, you are both not allowed to receive Communion unless you go to Confession and agree to live chastely until the annulment is granted. According to the Church, you are still married to your ex and that means both you and your intended are committing adultery.
ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFDIVOR.htm

As to your situation with your intended and your visitation agreement, you have a few options.

You can go back to court and have the agreement ammended which might be possible considering the situation. As in, planning to marry, waiting on religious officials to allow it, and pregnant. A sympathetic judge might remove the no unmarried overnight guests clause.

You can simply not have your fiancee overnight when you have your children with you. Obviously, this would be difficult if you already live together or plan to live together during the pregnancy and after the baby’s birth. Remember, the annulment process can and often does take 12-18 months. In some places it takes longer and it takes longer if the ex and witnesses do not cooperate in a timely manner. The baby being born before the annulment is final is a very real possibility.

Or, you can get married in a civil ceremony (having the marriage convalidated after the annulment) so that the morals clause in the divorce agreement doesn’t apply, so that your baby is born legitimate, and so that you have the right to make medical decisions for your lady and the baby in case of something going wrong during the pregnancy and delivery.

On a side note, I feel sick. According to my priest, who is also my Procurator/Advocate, it is very rare here for the first or second Tribunal to ask to meet with either spouse. I have heard phone interviews are possible. I dread the very idea. My ex is an unbaptized (literally, his parents never had him Baptized) Pagan with a hearty dislike of the Catholic Church. Until I read your post, I was pretty confident my annulment would be decently speedy. Maybe a year. If they ask him to co-operate I am afraid he will either deliberately sabatoge me or refuse and delay the process. I did inform him before I applied for the annulment and told him he would be contacted by letter. I asked that if he doesn’t want to participate he simply reply to the letter saying that he is not Christian and does not wish to participate in the process. Praying the Tribunals do not want an interview in person or by phone and that the ex does as I asked re the letter.

 

[Catholic1954]

You need to make an appointment and discuss all of this with a priest ASAP. He will be in the best position to advise you. You should not receive Communion until all of this is resolved.

 

[Phil_Marinus]

Move Forward and enjoy the love of your life… Good Luck !

 

[maryjk]

She and I got engaged about a month ago, and we decided to wait for completion of my pending annulment that I filed in march before proceeding with our wedding planning. It is both of our desires to be married within the church. (On a side note…my past marriage was convalidated a few years ago, but I discovered afterward that an extramarital relationship had endured since six months prior to our convalidation.)

You should not assume that you will receive a decree of nullity.

The fact that you had a Convalidation doesn’t bode well for you.

 

[thewanderer]

You should not assume that you will receive a decree of nullity.

The fact that you had a Convalidation doesn’t bode well for you.

You are right that there is no gaurantee, but I must say that, unless I’m misreading the OP, he is saying that at the time of the convalidation his wife was involved in an extramarital affair, which is a pretty good sign that she did not have correct intention at the time of the convalidation, which rather changes things.

 

[MJJean]

You are right that there is no gaurantee, but I must say that, unless I’m misreading the OP, he is saying that at the time of the convalidation his wife was involved in an extramarital affair, which is a pretty good sign that she did not have correct intention at the time of the convalidation, which rather changes things.

Those were my thoughts, too. Even though they had the marriage convalidated, his wife was having an extramarital affair that he was unaware of at the time of the convalidation . The OP says the affair “had endured since six months prior to our convalidation”. The way everything is phrased, it sounds like the wife had been in a 6 month affair when the marriage was convalidated and that the affair continued after the convalidation.

Of course there is no guarantee of an annulment. I think his chances are pretty decent considering the circumstances.

Grounds for Annulment:

Willful exclusion of marital fidelity (Canon 1101, 12)
You or your spouse married intending, either explicitly or implicitly, not to remain
faithful.

**Fraud or Imposed Error: (canon 1098) **
Defect of consent when a person entered marriage intentionally deceived by fraud, perpetrated to obtain marital consent, concerning some quality of the other party which of its very nature can seriously disturb the partnership of conjugal life. The fraud could have been perpetrated by the other spouse or by a third party, but the end result was the same: one of the contracting parties consented because he/she was deceived into doing so.

NOTE: Concerning Convalidation of Marriage: (canons 1156-1165)
When considering a marriage that was convalidated, it is necessary to look at the consent at the time of convalidation, rather than the consent at the time of the attempted marriage. Therefore, any of the above grounds may be used in adjudicating a case for a convalidated marriage.

Obviously, since she was having an affair at the time of convalidation she did not marry intending to be faithful and she did not believe marriage was an exclusive relationship. Additionally, OP can convincingly argue that he was deceived as he did not know about the affair at the time of the convalidation and would not have had the convalidation if he had known about the infidelity.

 

[WatchmansMoon]

Our current concern is only for the health and happiness of my 2 preschoolers and of our newborn-in-process… We just need whatever advice and prayers our family in Christ has to offer.

As part of your family in Christ, I’m more concerned about your conclusion that “Our current concern is only for the health and happiness of my 2 preschoolers and of our newborn-in-process.” These are noble things to be concerned about for any one of us, but wouldn’t you agree that our standing before God is paramount to anything else in our lives? 1 Jn 1:9 says “But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.” If your intention is to get all the steps right here on earth so that you can have health and happiness in your family, but omit prioritizing the most importation relationship you have (with God Himself) you’re missing the mark, friend.

I do hope you don’t mistake my response as being judgmental towards you in any way. We’re actually all guilty ourselves (see Matt. 5:27-28 “You have heard the commandment that says, ‘You must not commit adultery.’ But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”) We’re all sinners then pretty much, aren’t we? It’s not our place to judge you. I do encourage you, however, to confess what you need to before the Lord and ask Him to help you get your life and actions on track with this woman for the months ahead. If you’re truly repentant, you’ll make any changes necessary to prevent further sin in this regard. And may we all keep our lives and relationships with God on track. My prayers are with you, friend!

 

[Eliza10]

Good afternoon all.

I am a divorced father of two. Since my divorce I have fallen in love with a wonderful woman who has been a long time friend of mine. She has been absolutely amazing to both me and my children. Our relationship has been everything I could have hoped for and more!!!

She and I got engaged about a month ago, and we decided to wait for completion of my pending annulment that I filed in march before proceeding with our wedding planning.

LOL. I am not being mean here at all, but this “We decided…” was a bit telling. Because ideally it should read simply, “We are waiting” - because you do it because that is how God, though His Holy Church, has ordained its how He wants it. Not because you decide, but because He did. I just wanted to make that distinction.

It is both of our desires to be married within the church. (On a side note…my past marriage was convalidated a few years ago, but I discovered afterward that an extramarital relationship had endured since six months prior to our convalidation.)

Important as it means you probably will get the annulment.

It has already been a source of struggle for us to remain patient while the process takes course,

Thats for sure. I know. I am waiting for my love’s annulment, having received mine now, and the two of us are putting the expression of our passion on hold as well - and it truly is a struggle!

particularly after being requested by a member of the tribunal to enlist my ex-wife’s participation in the process who now seems to be somewhat indifferent about going to the interview.

This and so much about the process (like not knowing how long it will take, and if for sure you will get it) is so hard, though not as hard as putting intimacy on hold. That’s what we struggle the most with. It helps me to think of gays, who must “postpone” sexuality forever, assuming they will most likely not change their attraction. So how can I complain about the much more abbreviated postponement I am called to? I can’t. It gives me perspective to think of it this way…

However, my fiancé and I have recently made the problem a bit more difficult on ourselves by possibly creating a new life to add to our soon to be family.

Naw, the new life is a blessing, a complete gift of God. What you did to make the problem more difficult was what you engaged in to get the child here…

While we had discussed and both wanted children, the timing of our new creation is a tad disordered.

Yeah!

I am in much need of guidance and prayers as we process things and look to move forward with our new addition. Can anyone comment on whether or not we should be receiving Communion??

Only if you have repented and intend to sin no more. So you will be living as brother and sister. And that should be apart, so as not to cause scandal.

Can anyone comment on the best path forward for marriage as my divorce agreement has a morality clause that I’ll have no I married overnight guests??

As to your divorce agreement, I doubt the court will ask you who was home with your and your fiancee when the child was conceived, so you are okay there. You have no obligation to be transparent with the courts or your ex about that. Its not their business. Your transparency is owed to God alone. Of course He knows already, but you need to talk to Him about it.

I realize the magnitude of our actions, but it is all set in motion now. Our current concern is only for the health and happiness of my 2 preschoolers and of our newborn-in-process.

Yes. But also think about scandal, if living together while she is pregnant and you are not yet married in the Church is on your mind. Repentance means doing the right thing forward.

Luckily I have an amazing teammate who is willing to find a path forward together. We just need whatever advice and prayers our family in Christ has to offer.

If you tell the marraige tribunal about the new development, and the reason you woudl like to hurry the annulment so your child can be born to married parents, it is likely they will do what they can to speed up the process.

What is so wrong these days is when folks put off the wedding so they the bride can get into the great dress and have a big bash, and meanwhile live together as if they are married before hand. Its wrong, its a mortal sin, and its a scandal.

I am not saying you plan that. You did the wrong thing, you see now for sure you are a sinner like everyone else, but God sends extraordinary graces through the Sacraments of Confession and the Eucharist so you can now do the right things.