Need help answering this Mary/pagan goddess connection claim

[MrSnaith]

Mr. Snaith, I get what you are saying. But I also see where David is coming from. Honestly, it looks to me like you two might be having more of a semantic disagreement than anything else.

It looks to me like David is using the word necessary in the dictionary sense of “required absolutely”. In other words, if something is necessary for salvation, then there is no way to get to heaven without it. That’s why he says no Marian devotion is necessary for salvation. If it were, the Church would bind it on us under pain of sin. (e.g. Along with weekly Mass, we would have to pray a rosary etc…)

But since the Church does not require us to have any devotion to Mary, it cannot be said to be a strict necessity for our entrance into heaven. The only thing required is that we be in the state of grace. Marian devotion can greatly HELP us stay in that state, but it’s not a requirement for heaven in and of itself.

But you are not saying it is an absolute necessity correct? From what I’m reading here, I get the feeling that you – and most likely DeMontfort – are using “necessary” in a different sense than David is. It sounds like you are saying devotion to Mary is a necessity the same way people say education is a necessity. Strictly speaking, it’s POSSIBLE to live a full, healthy, happy life without ever setting foot in a classroom. But education can get you a lot more advantages and can make your life a lot easier than life without an education. It can prevent a lot of hardships as well.

That’s pretty much how devotion to Mary is. Under normal circumstances, it is “necessary”, because we need all the help we can get. But it’s not a requirement to enter heaven. We don’t have to have a relationship with Mary, the Church doesn’t require that of us. (though we would be stupid not to!) All we can’t do is deny that such devotion is valid and beneficial.

I might have completely misunderstood both of you though, so please correct me if I did. This is just what I’ve gathered from reading this thread.

I think I agree with your observations, Robyn. Of course, I recognize the absolute necessity of Baptism. It is necessary in a way nothing else is. Without it, for example, all the other graces dispensed through the Church are effectless. Baptism is the doorway into salvation, and there are no other such doors.

Moreover, under the right circumstances, it is all that is necessary for salvation. What circumstances? The circumstance whereby no mortal sin is committed after having received it.

The problem is, people normally live quite long after their baptism, and in that time there is plenty of room for error. If someone commits a mortal sin, for example, Confession ***is necessary. ***And this makes Holy Orders necessary, because Confession can only be performed by an ordained priest.

And what happens before a person is baptized? They have to receive the Gospel. Thus, the spreading of the Gospel, and the graces necessary for that spreading, are also necessary for salvation. Where do we get the special graces needed to spread and defend the Faith in word and action as true witnesses to Christ? We get these from Confirmation, which makes Confirmation necessary, as without it, we would not have the strength of grace to spread the Gospel, and bring the opportunity of Baptism to others.

Finally, we all sin. Period. Even if this is venial sin, without nourishing and strengthening graces, the accumulation of venial sin will lead to mortal sin. This is what makes the remaining Sacraments necessary. Communion, Matrimony, and Extreme Unction all confer special graces of nourishment and strengthening in the Faith. Without these graces, our sinfulness, over time, leads us to death. Venial sins wound charity in us, and eventually this leads to the death of the soul, mortal sin. That is what makes these sacraments necessary.

The Sacraments don’t merely enrich our spiritual life. They confer the necessary graces for salvation. Baptism is more necessary than the rest, because without it no salvation can be had by anyone, ever, even if we had all the other sacraments. But the primacy of necessity of Baptism doesn’t negate the necessity of the rest.

However, it occurs to me that I may be approaching the question of Marian devotion in the wrong way. Consider the following from the catechism:

971 “All generations will call me blessed”: “The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship.”

Perhaps we should meditate on what it means to be intrinsic to Christian worship, and what Christian worship has to do with salvation.