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AdoroTeDevote
Guest
How does one explain that God just exists? I understand that space, time, and matter’s exsistence points to God but how can I explain to someone God just exists? Is it just a mystery?
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Dan_Defender
Guest
First, for the believer no proof is necessary while for the unbeliever no proof is enough. Having said that, there are various philosophical arguments for the existence of God, like argument of causality, argument of motion, argument of morality, and others.
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anon64704623
Guest
No need to prove HIs existence. Just be a child and believe in Him.
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Magnanimity
Guest
I’m not sure what you mean by “just exists,” but I would say that the most successful arguments are cosmological arguments, especially the “vertical” forms of the cosmological arguments. These forms do not argue against an infinite regress of temporal causes. Nor do they drag science into the discussion. Rather, the vertical forms of the cosmological argument reason from the contingency of all beings in the universe needing a necessary, current cause of their ongoing existing. This, unfortunately is a nuanced argument and may take you some time to really grasp it. Norman Geisler is a non-Catholic Christian who does a great job of presenting it. And there are many, many Thomistic Catholics who present good versions of this argument. To me, it’s the most persuasive.
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Zach
Guest
You can’t explain or prove or disprove God’s existence. There are highly intelligent physicists, mathematicians, philosophers and Logicans who are believers and others who are athiests. Both sides can debate their sides convincingly and write long detailed articles and books that seem logically sound. If anyone claims they have airtight proof for either God’s existence or non-existence there is always someone from the other side who will find holes in the argument.
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abucs
Guest
First I would try to find common ground that SOMETHING eternal exists that is a framework for all Creation.
Next I would try to argue that this SOMETHING is not of this universe since everything of our universe has been created.
Lastly I would argue that the SOMETHING that created out universe has intelligence.
If all this is accepted then you are pretty close to God. It could be (given the above logic) that the two SOMETHINGS (what created our universe and what is the eternal uncreated substance) are not the same but since we cannot verify these things because they are beyond our material testing then God is a rational philosophy as much as one can have a rational philosophy.
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Seagull
Guest
Well - you might as well - go to the big things !
A certain amount of study too - is required.
You just cant sit down and convince someone -
I’d point to miracles and events and places !
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aragonjohn1
Guest
For me it’s enough to experience/see God’s beauty in what He creates and also that He Is the one who Is every Good and Is perfect and everything is a creature Holy God makes even time. And we are his children whom he loves completely and deeply.
Edit1: sorry not into grammar that much atm
Peace
-john
Edit1: sorry not into grammar that much atm
Peace
-john
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@AdoroTeDevote , I would have no idea how to explain God’s eternal nature .
God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” (Ex 3:14) .
GOD IS .
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SalamKhan
Guest
I don’t understand the question. Are you asking us to prove God’s existence? Or something more specific?
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StAugustine
Guest
I think we need to appeal to a rather stark fact-
That which is uncreated and eternal has absolutely no natural similarity to that which is created and finite. Therefore, the existence of the uncreated and eternal cannot be demonstrated through means that are created and finite. It would be similar to looking at a microscope and saying: “This instrument makes small things look bigger so we can understand them better.” And then consequently pointing the microscope at the sky and concluding there are no stars and no galaxies because none can be seen. “Upon further analysis with my microscope I have concluded stars and celestial bodies do not in fact exist.”
This is similar to what it is like to try to use mere logic and human reasoning to prove the uncreated and infinite nature of God. It cannot be done. We CAN use logic to examine what he has REVEALED to us in the scriptures, and what can be known through nature, but we cannot fix the eye of the soul on the divine essence in itself. Jesus himself said as much to St. Faustina-
“On one occasion I was reflecting on the Holy Trinity, on the essence of God. I absolutely wanted to know and fathom who God is. … In an instant my spirit was caught up into what seemed to be the next world. I saw an inaccessible light, and in this light what appeared like three sources of light which I could not understand. And out of that light came words in the form of lightning which encircled heaven and earth. Not understanding anything, I was very sad. Suddenly, from this sea of inaccessible light came our dearly beloved Savior, unutterably beautiful with His shining Wounds. And from this light came a voice which said, Who God is in His Essence, no one will fathom, neither the mind of Angels nor of man. Jesus said to me, Get to know God by contemplating His attributes. A moment later, He traced the sign of the cross with His hand and vanished.”
That which is uncreated and eternal has absolutely no natural similarity to that which is created and finite. Therefore, the existence of the uncreated and eternal cannot be demonstrated through means that are created and finite. It would be similar to looking at a microscope and saying: “This instrument makes small things look bigger so we can understand them better.” And then consequently pointing the microscope at the sky and concluding there are no stars and no galaxies because none can be seen. “Upon further analysis with my microscope I have concluded stars and celestial bodies do not in fact exist.”
This is similar to what it is like to try to use mere logic and human reasoning to prove the uncreated and infinite nature of God. It cannot be done. We CAN use logic to examine what he has REVEALED to us in the scriptures, and what can be known through nature, but we cannot fix the eye of the soul on the divine essence in itself. Jesus himself said as much to St. Faustina-
“On one occasion I was reflecting on the Holy Trinity, on the essence of God. I absolutely wanted to know and fathom who God is. … In an instant my spirit was caught up into what seemed to be the next world. I saw an inaccessible light, and in this light what appeared like three sources of light which I could not understand. And out of that light came words in the form of lightning which encircled heaven and earth. Not understanding anything, I was very sad. Suddenly, from this sea of inaccessible light came our dearly beloved Savior, unutterably beautiful with His shining Wounds. And from this light came a voice which said, Who God is in His Essence, no one will fathom, neither the mind of Angels nor of man. Jesus said to me, Get to know God by contemplating His attributes. A moment later, He traced the sign of the cross with His hand and vanished.”
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Dan_Defender
Guest
‘At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall
know fully, as I am fully known.’ 1 Corinthians 13:12
know fully, as I am fully known.’ 1 Corinthians 13:12
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IWantGod
Guest
I disagree. Even if no successful argument has been put forward, it is an article of faith that God’s existence can be known from the things he has created. In other-word, it is in principle possible to prove God’s existence insomuch as we can infer his existence from the things he has made…
Also, disagreement, especially when it comes to God, is not necessarily evidence that an argument is not correct. Biases can blind us from the truth, and there is as much bias for materialist conceptions of reality as there is faith in the existence of God.
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Zach
Guest
Yes as you say it’s an article of faith. But I was saying whenever someone claims to prove God’s existence or non-existence by means of logic or reason there is always a counter argument which finds finds holes in the proof.
To say we can infer God’s existence from things he has created is to assume the conclusion. It’s circular reasoning. It is assuming he created things without proving it.
I agree that athiesm is as much a faith as belief in God. In a way it is more faith based because it can’t be proven that God doesn’t exist. It can be proven that God exists. Not by logic or reason but by him appearing to us which he did 2000 years ago.
To say we can infer God’s existence from things he has created is to assume the conclusion. It’s circular reasoning. It is assuming he created things without proving it.
I agree that athiesm is as much a faith as belief in God. In a way it is more faith based because it can’t be proven that God doesn’t exist. It can be proven that God exists. Not by logic or reason but by him appearing to us which he did 2000 years ago.
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StAugustine
Guest
That is only a proof if you can prove God was actually incarnate. That’s an assumption (which I believe).
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