Need help explaining

[TantumErgo90]

I need help explaining to the Liturgical minister in my parish a few things about the Tridentine Mass. She has raised these questions before, and I don’t know how to answer them. I need to know why these things are in the Liturgy and what is the theological significance behind them. Here they are:

Why there are two confiteors? one for the priest and one for the people.

Why there is a third confiteor before communion.

Why the Offeritory is silent.

Why the priest only says “per omnia saecula saeculorum” aloud in the Secret Prayer.

Why the canon is silent, except for “Nobis quoque peccatoribus”?

Why are there so many signs of the cross in the canon.

Why most of the post-canon prayers are silent. And why are there many signs of the crosses in the post canon prayers.

Why there are two sets of three “domine non sum dignus” and why is there a seperate one for the priest and people and why does the priest only say “domine non sum dignus” aloud on his.

I know this is a lot…but your help is greatly appreciated.

 

[TantumErgo90]

Also why does the subdeacon hold the paten during the canon upto the pater noster with a humeral veil.

 

[Chatter163]

Better questions would be why all of these were eliminated in the current missal.

 

[NoPlaceLikeRome]

Why there are two confiteors? one for the priest and one for the people.

Because the last few words say either “and to you [singular], Father”, or “and to you [plural], brethren.” I.E. “I confess to all these saints, and also to whoever of the people present is not talking.” Obviously the priest can’t confess to himself that he has sinned.

Why there is a third confiteor before communion.

I believe that it is in preparation for the reception of the Sacrament, emphasizing again our unworthiness.

Why the Offertory is silent.

You’d better look this one up. Just bear in mind that the priest isn’t talking to the congregation, but to God, who hears him howsoever quietly he speaks.

Why the priest only says “per omnia saecula saeculorum” aloud in the Secret Prayer.

Why the canon is silent, except for “Nobis quoque peccatoribus”?

I believe the spoken parts are to allow you to catch up in the Missal. I could be totally wrong. But I think that’s why.

Why are there so many signs of the cross in the canon.

Well, the cross is pretty relevant… again I’m guessing but I mean if it’s going to become, and then is, the Body of Christ, it can’t hurt to bless it, eh?

Why most of the post-canon prayers are silent. And why are there many signs of the crosses in the post canon prayers.

Same reason as the rest of the Mass of the Faithful is silent, but I don’t know exactly why.

Why there are two sets of three “domine non sum dignus” and why is there a seperate one for the priest and people and why does the priest only say “domine non sum dignus” aloud on his.

I would assume that there’s a separate one for the priest because he has his Communion earlier, so that he can say it just before he receives Communion, and the people can say it just before their Communion.

 

[GerardP]

You’d better look this one up. Just bear in mind that the priest isn’t talking to the congregation, but to God, who hears him howsoever quietly he speaks.

All of the other rites of the Church have had some degree of secrecy in the consecration either behind a curtain or out of sight and earshot as in the TLM. The quiet emphasizes the mystery and helps the faithful focus on the event.

Same reason as the rest of the Mass of the Faithful is silent, but I don’t know exactly why.

“Silence for the soul” is how one priest described it.

I would assume that there’s a separate one for the priest because he has his Communion earlier, so that he can say it just before he receives Communion, and the people can say it just before their Communion.

There is a strong delineation between the priest and the priesthood of the people. The closing of the sanctuary, the vesting, the removing of the maniple to preach the gospel.

Recommendation: If people really want to explore, an interesting and entertaining tape set was done by Charles Coulombe and William Biersach in which they go over the Missals of Pius V and Paul VI line by line in Latin and English showing the meaning and difference between the two forms.

It will greatly enhance your appreciation of the TLM and want you to demand of your local pastor as reverent and close to the TLM version of the Novus Ordo as possible if they can’t do the TLM.

 

[kleary]

Why there are two confiteors? one for the priest and one for the people.

Because the priest is different than the lay person. In the Middle Ages the Protestants invented the “common confiteor” to show that there is no difference between the priest and the lay people.

Why there is a third confiteor before communion.

I find myself praying an act of contrition every time I go up to receive Holy Communion. The “third confiteor” is not in the 1962 Missal and was eliminated.

Why the Offeritory is silent.

The offertory is not prayed in silence. The Canon however is. This is due to the sacredness of the words being prayed by the priest that are directed to God alone.

Why the priest only says “per omnia saecula saeculorum” aloud in the Secret Prayer.

So that the lay people (assisted by the choir/schola) will know when to sing the response “Amen”.

Why the canon is silent, except for “Nobis quoque peccatoribus”?

Because the priest wants all to hear that he himself is a sinner.

Why are there so many signs of the cross in the canon.

Most likely for the action that is taking place for symbolism I would say.

Why most of the post-canon prayers are silent. And why are there many signs of the crosses in the post canon prayers.

“Post Canon Prayers?”

Why there are two sets of three “domine non sum dignus” and why is there a seperate one for the priest and people and why does the priest only say “domine non sum dignus” aloud on his.

The priest receives Communion seperate from the lay person. He himself prays three times the “Domine non sum dignus” with his voice elevated during the first part for the people to hear him claim aloud that he is not worthy to receive Holy Communion. Again we are getting into things that show the Catholic Faith here- that the priest is DIFFERENT than you or I. Luther and the Protestants claimed otherwise and made their newly designed liturgies to show that false teaching.

I know this is a lot…but your help is greatly appreciated.

Ken

 

[ChristopherM]

This sermon in MP3 format is a discription of the Solemn High mass
audiosancto.com/audio/2003/20030108__Sermon__The_Solemn_High_Mass__32.mp3

there is SOOO much meaning behind all of it

I would also Reccomend The Video “The Most beautiful Thing this side of Heaven”
Good info there too

The side bar in the Angelus Missal is pretty good too

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

Again we are getting into things that show the Catholic Faith here- that the priest is DIFFERENT than you or I. Luther and the Protestants claimed otherwise and made their newly designed liturgies to show that false teaching.

“Ordination has no meaning” is a false teaching. However the exact and proper relationship between priest and people is something that can be negotiated. Vatican II moved in spirit more towards the Protestant view, but then, ironically, made the priest face the people at Mass, turning the priest from lead man in the congregation to representative of Christ. The priest is both, of course, so facing the people is not “wrong”, but it sends a very different message about what the priesthood means.

 

[BobP123]

I believe the spoken parts are to allow you to catch up in the Missal.

Could very well be. All the other gestures, kissing the altar, signs of cross, bowing, etc. also indicate what the priest is praying at the time.

 

[stmaria]

Douay Catechism of 1649 **Go to site for all of it **

remnantnewspaper.com/resources.htm

Q. 953. What signify the several ornaments of the priest?
A. The Amict, or linen veil, which he first puts on, represents the veil with which the
Jews covered the face of Christ, when they buffeted him in the house of Caiaphas, and
bid him prophesy, “who it was that struck him.”
2. The Alb signifies the white garment, which Herod put on him, to intimate that he was a
fool.
3. The Girdle signifies the cord that bound him in the garden.
4. The Maniple, the cord which bound him to the pillar.
5. The Stole, the cord by which they led him to the crucified.
6. The priest’s upper, Vestment, represents both the seamless coat of Christ, as also the
purple garment with which they clothed him in derision in the house of Pilate.
7. The Altar-stone, represents the cross on which he offered himself unto the Father.
8. The Chalice, the sepulchre or grave of Christ.
9. The Paten, the stone which was rolled to the door of the sepulchre.
10. The Altar-cloths, with the corporal and Pall, the linen in which the dead body of
Christ was shrouded and buried. Finally, the candles on the Altar puts us in mind of the
light which Christ brought into the world by his passion, as also of his immortal and ever
shining divinity.

[Edited by Moderator]