Need help getting a man out of my head

[VivienneJ]

People who are not Catholic get annulments?

If they subsequently want to marry a Catholic, yes.

But how would that work?

They would apply to the Tribunal, same as Catholics do, fill out the required paperwork and await the decision.

There may be nothing “invalid” about his first marriage.

In which case he would not be free to marry (a Catholic), as he would still be in a valid marriage, although divorced from his wife. This is why many have advised the OP that, in addition to waiting for her Decree of Nullity to be granted (or not), it would be prudent for this man to apply for an annulment of his marriage before a serious relationship is entered into between them, only to end in ‘heartache’ if he were not free to marry her.

And his first wife would have to agree to it, right?

I’m not sure about this, I think there are some forms she would be expected to fill in, but, depending on what the reasons for invalidity are, I think there are cases where the Tribunal can proceed without the ex-spouse’s (name removed by moderator)ut. Things may take longer then.

 

[mellowcalico]

Thanks again.

Like I said, my main thing right now is I just want to get him out of my head and stop having these feelings for him. There is no relationship yet beyond friendship–who knows if there will ever be.

I am not even really sure if he likes me in a romantic fashion at all… so him getting an annulment, etc is good advice if things were to take off, but it makes a lot of assumptions at this point (that he’s interested in me, and even if he were interested in me that he’d be interested in dating me because it would be long distance, etc).

Avoiding seeing him is easy–like I said, he lives out of state. I travel to where he lives for training… but not so much that it’s an issue. I already have travel plans for next week for training… so that’s kind of set. And he and I have already made a few plans like we’ve done in the past. And if I am to have a frank talk to him as others suggested, I would want to do that face-to-face (not over the phone or over e-mail). I won’t be out his way again though until around Thanksgiving. Keeping my actions under control is easy–even if there is temptation. It’s the emotions I can’t control.

It’s my mind wandering and thinking about him every day or the way my heart jumps when I see I have a message from him that’s getting to me–that’s the problem I am facing now and need to get under control. I suppose there is no advice for that–it’s part of the reason I came here to ask–I am at the end of my rope. Like I said, I’ve read articles on it, I’ve prayed, I’ve tried distracting myself, I’ve tried not contacting him… nothing works.

 

[VivienneJ]

Thanks again.

Like I said, my main thing right now is I just want to get him out of my head and stop having these feelings for him. There is no relationship yet beyond friendship–who knows if there will ever be.

I am not even really sure if he likes me in a romantic fashion at all… so him getting an annulment, etc is good advice if things were to take off, but it makes a lot of assumptions at this point (that he’s interested in me, and even if he were interested in me that he’d be interested in dating me because it would be long distance, etc).

Avoiding seeing him is easy–like I said, he lives out of state. I travel to where he lives for training… but not so much that it’s an issue. I already have travel plans for next week for training… so that’s kind of set. And he and I have already made a few plans like we’ve done in the past. And if I am to have a frank talk to him as others suggested, I would want to do that face-to-face (not over the phone or over e-mail). I won’t be out his way again though until around Thanksgiving. Keeping my actions under control is easy–even if there is temptation. It’s the emotions I can’t control.

It’s my mind wandering and thinking about him every day or the way my heart jumps when I see I have a message from him that’s getting to me–that’s the problem I am facing now and need to get under control. I suppose there is no advice for that–it’s part of the reason I came here to ask–I am at the end of my rope. Like I said, I’ve read articles on it, I’ve prayed, I’ve tried distracting myself, I’ve tried not contacting him… nothing works.

I have been in a somewhat similar position, many years ago, and it was worth questioning the man in concern as to whether we had a good friendship going, or if it was a friendship with relationship potential. In my case it was the former, which did a whole lot to help me get my feelings under control. (And I have reason to believe that he would not have been granted a Decree of Nullity for his marriage, which would have not mattered to Anglican me back then, but which would have changed the whole ball game now for Catholic me. That could have caused a whole lot of heart-ache.)

You know best how you and this friend relate, but it may well be worth considering asking a couple of questions.

 

[MJJean]

People who are not Catholic get annulments?
But how would that work?
There may be nothing “invalid” about his first marriage. And his first wife would have to agree to it, right?

.

From my understanding, anyone can apply for an annulment through the Church, even if they are not Catholic and even if they have no intention of being Catholic or marrying a Catholic. The person seeking annulment just has to approach a priest, discuss it, fill out and then submit the paperwork and wait for further instructions from the tribunal.

Nope, there may be nothing invalid about his first marriage. But the reverse is also true. One ground for declaring a marriage invalid is that either or both spouses did not believe marriage to be permanent. I’m pretty willing to bet a lot of non-Catholic folks marry thinking they can always dissolve the marriage through divorce if it didn’t work out. Meaning they lacked understanding of marriage as taught by the Church.

No, the ex-spouse does not have to agree to anything. I don’t know if the procedure is the same everywhere, but the tribunal here sends a letter by certified mail to the ex. The ex is given 30 days to respond. If there is no response, they send another certified letter and may attempt phone contact. If there is still no response after another 30 days the case proceeds. If the ex replies and states that they will not participate in the process, the case proceeds. And, of course, if the ex is willing to participate they are welcome to do so.

 

[AnneTeresa]

Since your concern right now is on controlling your thoughts, why not use them as an opportunity to pray? Each time you have those thoughts, pray to Mary and Jesus to help you. Sounds to me like you are romanticizing the relationship (which is just normal since he treats you so well). It’s like anything, ask Jesus for help when the thoughts come. Don’t deny them–that’s just repression. Don’t fight them, just acknowledge them and use them for good. They can be a reminder to pray for him and for yourself. Just an idea, FWIW

 

[Rau]

…There may be nothing “invalid” about his first marriage. And his first wife would have to agree to it, right?

.

That’s a curious thing about the annulment process…one spouse may feel much aggrieved that outsiders have decided she/he was never married.

 

[MJJean]

That’s a curious thing about the annulment process…one spouse may feel much aggrieved that outsiders have decided she/he was never married.

Annulment doesn’t mean the couple was never married. It means that they were invalidly married according to the teachings of the Church. Quite a distinction. The Church doesn’t deny there was a marriage. There obviously was a marriage, it just wasn’t a marriage as taught by Catholic Church.

“An annulment determines that at the time of marriage something was missing in the relationship preventing the marriage from being sacramental.** There was a valid, legal and civil marriage, but not a valid sacramental marriage.**”

or

“The truth is that an annulment can’t erase history, and doesn’t try to. An annulment in the Catholic Church deals only with the sacrament of marriage, and not the legal, historical, emotional truth of marriage. An annulment states that the sacrament was never present in the marriage, and not that the marriage never took place. It is a myth that an annulment means that the marriage never happened.”

 

[Rau]

Annulment doesn’t mean the couple was never married. It means that they were invalidly married according to the teachings of the Church. Quite a distinction. The Church doesn’t deny there was a marriage. There obviously was a marriage, it just wasn’t a marriage as taught by Catholic Church.

“An annulment determines that at the time of marriage something was missing in the relationship preventing the marriage from being sacramental.** There was a valid, legal and civil marriage, but not a valid sacramental marriage.**”

or

“The truth is that an annulment can’t erase history, and doesn’t try to. An annulment in the Catholic Church deals only with the sacrament of marriage, and not the legal, historical, emotional truth of marriage. An annulment states that the sacrament was never present in the marriage, and not that the marriage never took place. It is a myth that an annulment means that the marriage never happened.”

In that case, how can the tribunal make a determination in respect of a non-catholic marriage?

 

[MJJean]

In that case, how can the tribunal make a determination in respect of a non-catholic marriage?

The Church recognizes and respects all marriages. Even non-Catholic marriages can still be valid if the proper intent and consent was present at the time of the ceremony.

 

[Rau]

The Church recognizes and respects all marriages. Even non-Catholic marriages can still be valid if the proper intent and consent was present at the time of the ceremony.

But you’ve said that an annulment states that “the sacrament was never present” in a marriage. How can this be relevant for a (say) civil marriage? Or by “sacrament”, do you simply mean “proper intent and consent”?

 

[LongingSoul]

But you’ve said that an annulment states that “the sacrament was never present” in a marriage. How can this be relevant for a (say) civil marriage? Or by “sacrament”, do you simply mean “proper intent and consent”?

There are two aspects present to marriage… divine law and Church law. Only Church law binds Catholics, but divine law binds all who enter marriage with right intention and that has to be recognised and addressed for any subsequent marriage in the Catholic Church.

 

[angeldia30]

I should say that no one is stoic…Emotions are perfectly healthy, good and acceptable. If you didn’t feel anything, you would be dead… So, don’t worry - It’s good that you’re happy and excited about this new “friendship” I love making new friends

 

[EasterJoy]

Thanks again.

Like I said, my main thing right now is I just want to get him out of my head and stop having these feelings for him. There is no relationship yet beyond friendship–who knows if there will ever be.

I am not even really sure if he likes me in a romantic fashion at all… so him getting an annulment, etc is good advice if things were to take off, but it makes a lot of assumptions at this point (that he’s interested in me, and even if he were interested in me that he’d be interested in dating me because it would be long distance, etc).

Avoiding seeing him is easy–like I said, he lives out of state. I travel to where he lives for training… but not so much that it’s an issue. I already have travel plans for next week for training… so that’s kind of set. And he and I have already made a few plans like we’ve done in the past. And if I am to have a frank talk to him as others suggested, I would want to do that face-to-face (not over the phone or over e-mail). I won’t be out his way again though until around Thanksgiving. Keeping my actions under control is easy–even if there is temptation. It’s the emotions I can’t control.

It’s my mind wandering and thinking about him every day or the way my heart jumps when I see I have a message from him that’s getting to me–that’s the problem I am facing now and need to get under control. I suppose there is no advice for that–it’s part of the reason I came here to ask–I am at the end of my rope. Like I said, I’ve read articles on it, I’ve prayed, I’ve tried distracting myself, I’ve tried not contacting him… nothing works.

Well, there is always the sour-grapes method, which is to open your eyes and concentrate on all the down sides to this guy that you’ve been ignoring. (Nothing against him, but we all have them.) If you have an infatuation that is just wrong–to the point that you know you are living in a fantasy world concerning either what he really is or what you could really have–then by all means the sour grapes method is in order. Force your fantasies to go where reality would really take these little inner fairy tales. Your friend might thank you if you put on a little dose of that, even. Most of us are a little creeped out by being put on a pedestal. That is a form of distraction that might work…that is, if you keep forcing yourself to see his warts, then you might dissuade yourself from the fairy-dust thoughts that requires the wart-dust cure. Instead, steer your thoughts about him to something more appropriate to your relationship.

The other possibility is to expand your social life to include a bit more masculine company than you have. They say that hunger is the best sauce; it maybe that you are so hungry that even something of average attractiveness is far more tempting than it has a right to be.

Somehow, though, I think this isn’t what you’re after. I think you really like this fellow, and you want to consider a romantic relationship with him. Well, go ahead and think about it. You can go ahead and ask him: “Frank, are you flirting with me, or do you only do that because you know I won’t be upset by it?” And then tell him that you’d certainly consider flirting with him, once your marriage is declared null, but that when it comes to marriage, you are very serious and will not leave your vows behind until you are sure that they no longer bind. If he’s not flirting with you, well, he’s still a friend. You can tell him that you’re kicking around whether or not to jump into dating, should your case be decided as you think it probably will be. He may be a very good friend to talk to about that. If you can’t be so candid with him as that, then he’s probably not a very good candidate for a romantic interest, either, is he? At our age, we need someone with whom we can lay our cards on the table, and not play the games we had the time for when we were youngsters.

 

[mellowcalico]

Thanks Easterjoy!

I’ve tried the sour grapes thing… it doesn’t work. I still like him in spite of imperfections. What actually works best with me (but is only temporary) it to convince myself he’s seeing someone else. That puts a bit of a break on my emotion–but it doesn’t last because I know it’s not true.

Based on all the responses, a sound talk is in order. I am kind of afraid I will lose a friend if it turns out he’s not interested in me.

I know it doesn’t help to wish, but I really wish I could turn my mind back to when I didn’t have feelings for him and be that way again.

 

[EasterJoy]

Thanks Easterjoy!

I’ve tried the sour grapes thing… it doesn’t work. I still like him in spite of imperfections. What actually works best with me (but is only temporary) it to convince myself he’s seeing someone else. That puts a bit of a break on my emotion–but it doesn’t last because I know it’s not true.

Based on all the responses, a sound talk is in order. I am kind of afraid I will lose a friend if it turns out he’s not interested in me.

I know it doesn’t help to wish, but I really wish I could turn my mind back to when I didn’t have feelings for him and be that way again.

You don’t have to broach this subject too directly. You can bring up the subject of your annulment proceedings, mention that you’ve put off romantic relationships until that is through, and then ask him what he’d do in your situation. He’s single…does he think people in your situation are better off staying single? You don’t have to actually have any intention of doing what he says. You’re just giving him an opening to talk about whether he thinks you ought to date him!

If he starts talking about how he decided to start dating the woman he’s dating or saying that he’s come to the conclusion that women are better just as friends, well, that was a delicate way of letting you know he won’t be asking you out any time soon. (I remember having male friends say, “I could never date you, you’re too _____.” We remained friends…one can’t be the perfect woman to every guy they know!) To that, you can say:* Well, if you have a friend like you who’s looking for someone, let me know when my annulment comes through, because you are the kind of man I could get interested in. So many guys out there are…I don’t know, just wrong. Luckily, though, there are guys who make good friends, and that is important, too. If I don’t marry again, that won’t be the end of the world*. And who knows, if he’s not a candidate, he may introduce you to a friend who is! If he asks you to help set him up with someone else, though, you have to be a good sport about it…

 

[lily22]

I think you have a gift here, of friendship, he seems respectful, just hang out with him, and see where your annulment goes.

 

[joy0602]

I’m confused by the assumption here and on this forum that the OP is going to get an annulment. I remember what she said about her husband and I guess that’s one of those cases where they might be able to determine that intent was not there for the marriage to be valid.

However, I was under the impression that one is still married in the eyes of the Church until their marriage has been declared null. Therefore, to be thinking about a romantic relationship, to the point of having an intimate conversation with this other party, doesn’t seem to be in keeping with the marital vows of “forsaking all others.”

Last effort I will make to suggest that OP stop dating this man (I say dating because you said you go out to eat, to the movies etc, that’s a date), and refrain from having this intimate conversation **unless and until **you receive a declaration of nullity.

It’s not appropriate to be thinking romantically of anyone at this moment. Please find something else to do with your time. Pray. Keep busy. Join a charitable organization. Think about others who are in need.

God Bless.