Need help!, how should I respond to a protestant who says this?

[chaz0426]

So many times whenever I come across protestants who ask me if I am “saved” and I tell them about my catholic faith and how I believe I might be saved and hope I will they seem to give me a look of shame. Even some of my good friends who are protestant say the same argument again and again and I know in my heart it is wrong but I don’t know how to best put a defense into words. What should I say to this while sounding intelligent?

Protestant: " Salvation is only attained by faith in christ alone. Not by works. You cannot earn your salvation to heaven. No one is good enough to EARN their salvation. You can only trust in Christ’s finished work on the cross. He paid the price for your sin’s. Doing works is pointless ect."

This is the sole argument they present and I know it is wrong because there are plenty of reasons we should do works. However they seem to be unfamiliar with James or a lot of them are. Yet they present so many scriptual evidences.

To the smartest or well veresed person out there. What should I say and how can I reference my belief? I am familiar with what James says but how can I prove that he was right.

How can I prove that Paul did not mean “faith alone only”?

What can I say and how can I sound intelligent in my arguments.

I don’t expect to convince them but at least fully defend myself and not looking like an idiot or clueless without any words.

Any help!

 

[RobHom]

1. Ask them if they “believe what the Bible says”?
2. Ask them if they “place Paul’s words above those of Christ Himself”?
3. Ask them if they believe everything in the Bible?

If they answer yes to 1 & 3…ask them what their problem with Catholicism is. They will be “dumbfounded”. Its a trick question.

If they “waffle” on 2…they are “disingenuous” and should be written off as truly uninformed or propagandized.

But the real question is this:

Do they “worship” PAUL or CHRIST? Here’s why that is important: Many non-Catholics will cite “Paul” as justification…yet they will completely ignore the very words of CHRIST Himself. Christ gave us very specific instructions on what we have to do, and how we are to live according to God’s desires and will… and it is far more than being “dunked in a tank and saying you believe”…

Bluntly put…many bark at the moon and are clueless as to what the Bible really is… afterall, they are working from an incomplete Bible that has been modified my mere men… (so much for “inspired works of scripture”)…

It is not necessary for you to justify anything to them.

Ask them why it is that they find it necessary to prove anything… especially that they think someone else is “wrong”. Is the proof that they are right and others are wrong…the justification for their existence? Are they not confident in their beliefs…?

Seems not… so this tells me they are unsure and afraid that they are in error…which they are, but are trying to run fire drills to prove that which cannot be proven…

Shake the dust from your feet and find other friends…

 

[wanner47]

Give them a copy of this:

catholic.com/library/Assurance_of_Salvation.asp

 

[RobHom]

Give them a copy of this:

catholic.com/library/Assurance_of_Salvation.asp

 

[Highwayhound]

Chaz,

I once worked with a fellow who had a definite bad image of Catholics. We were employed to paint the inside of the house. As we talked he spoke negatively about the Catholic Church.

Now I could have gotten my hackles up, but instead I listened with a humble heart. Occasionally I would make a short comment. Especially on points where we agreed.

By the end of the day we had finished painting the living room (it had a very high vaulted ceiling). By this time he had also come to a conclusion.

“You are a Catholic, aren’t you?”
“Yes, I am.”

By the look in his eyes I could tell he drove away that day with a whole different perspective on who and what Catholics are.

I have not thought about this in years. I hope the example is of use to you.

Sincerely,

One of God’s humble creatures

 

[Derwin_James]

I have been reading a book by John Salza, and he suggest the following “I have been redeemed by the Blood of Christ, and, like Paul, I am working out my Salvation with fear and trembling. (Phil 2:12)”

 

[Sabbath_Keeper]

So many times whenever I come across protestants who ask me if I am “saved” and I tell them about my catholic faith and how I believe I might be saved and hope I will they seem to give me a look of shame. Even some of my good friends who are protestant say the same argument again and again and I know in my heart it is wrong but I don’t know how to best put a defense into words. What should I say to this while sounding intelligent?

Protestant: " Salvation is only attained by faith in christ alone. Not by works. You cannot earn your salvation to heaven. No one is good enough to EARN their salvation. You can only trust in Christ’s finished work on the cross. He paid the price for your sin’s. Doing works is pointless ect."

This is the sole argument they present and I know it is wrong because there are plenty of reasons we should do works. However they seem to be unfamiliar with James or a lot of them are. Yet they present so many scriptual evidences.

To the smartest or well veresed person out there. What should I say and how can I reference my belief? I am familiar with what James says but how can I prove that he was right.

How can I prove that Paul did not mean “faith alone only”?

What can I say and how can I sound intelligent in my arguments.

I don’t expect to convince them but at least fully defend myself and not looking like an idiot or clueless without any words.

Any help!

Ask them if they’ve ever read the Book of James. His epistle explains it thoroughly… Of course you man need to refer them also to Peter’s epistles as well, the one that sais Paul’s epistles are sometimes hard to understand.

God be with you.

 

[Le_Cracquere]

Protestant: " Salvation is only attained by faith in christ alone. Not by works. You cannot earn your salvation to heaven. No one is good enough to EARN their salvation. You can only trust in Christ’s finished work on the cross. He paid the price for your sin’s. Doing works is pointless ect."

Well, I’ll leave this for the Catholics on this forum to confirm, but my impression had been that your example quote is perfectly consistent with Catholic teaching, except for the “doing works is pointless” part. And I don’t know even of many Protestants who think works entirely pointless–even the biggest grace-over-works types I know would probably say “a man’s works are a significant symptom of grace, though they can’t serve as a wellspring thereof.”

If I were a Catholic, the phrasing and emphases of your example would seem fairly loaded, but I don’t think I’d disagree with the first six sentences (though I probably would with the implications it seems to be trying to bend towards). If I’m right–and I’ll leave it up to you all to judge whether I am–your best response to most of that assertion might be, “tell me something we don’t know.”

 

[JRKH]

I have been reading a book by John Salza, and he suggest the following “I have been redeemed by the Blood of Christ, and, like Paul, I am working out my Salvation with fear and trembling. (Phil 2:12)”

:clapping:

I hadn’t thought of this one.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

So many times whenever I come across protestants who ask me if I am “saved” and I tell them about my catholic faith and how I believe I might be saved and hope I will they seem to give me a look of shame. Even some of my good friends who are protestant say the same argument again and again and I know in my heart it is wrong but I don’t know how to best put a defense into words. What should I say to this while sounding intelligent?

**Protestant: " Salvation is only attained by faith in christ alone. Not by works. You cannot earn your salvation to heaven. No one is good enough to EARN their salvation. You can only trust in Christ’s finished work on the cross. He paid the price for your sin’s. Doing works is pointless ect." **

First of all agree with them. The Church does not teach that we can “Earn” our way to heaven. However this does not mean that Doing Good works are “Pointless acts”.
Ask them if they support missions, or do any volunteer work etc. These are all Good works. As Christians, do they not feel some obligation to do these? Not for “earnings”, but because Christ commanded us to be “Good Samaritans”
Also, in addition to James, you might want to take a look at Revelation 14:13
(The New King James Version)
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, "Write: “Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”’ “Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”

This is the sole argument they present and I know it is wrong because there are plenty of reasons we should do works. However they seem to be unfamiliar with James or a lot of them are. Yet they present so many scriptual evidences.

These types of people are great at tossing our verses. Don’t worry to much about that. Catholics generally know the Bible Pretty well even if we can’t point to Chapter and verse. Just put the arguments out there of what Jesus commanded, to give to the poor, to follow him, most of what Jesus taught involved “Doing” things (works)

To the smartest or well veresed person out there. What should I say and how can I reference my belief? I am familiar with what James says but how can I prove that he was right.

James is in the Bible. If your opponents reject James, then they reject the innerrancy of the Bible. If they do that then their entire faith collapses.
The Fullness of faith does not consist of picking certain verses from the Bible and ignoring or belittling others. It consists of looking at the entire Bible and seeing how all of the pieces fit together. Paul Preaches the importance of faith. This is not wrong. James expresses the importance of works in connection with faith. This is also correct. The issue is how do we understand both in the context of Christ’s teachings.
Remember that any teaching in the Epistles needs to be looked at through the lens of Christ’s teachings in the Gospels.

How can I prove that Paul did not mean “faith alone only”?

What can I say and how can I sound intelligent in my arguments.

I don’t expect to convince them but at least fully defend myself and not looking like an idiot or clueless without any words.

Any help!

You have recieved many good suggestions already, to which I will add only one.
Don’t be afraid to say “I don’t Know”, but then follow that immediately with, but I’ll find out and get back to you. Then do the followup and take them the proofs.
Personally I think, based on what you’ve written here, that you will do fine.

Peace
James

 

[thirdn6]

There was a construction foreman who told his 8 men to work overtime on a weekend. They have to finish a certain job because another contractor was supposed to start once their work was done. All his men said yes.
Came Saturday only two showed up. They were not able to accomplish the job. The foreman was so mad.
Came Monday he asked each one of the six privately why they didn’t come to work. Surprisingly, they all have the same answer: “ I thought I was the only one who didn’t show up and I really believe you guys could finish the job without me, I really do!” All six of them believed that the crew could finish the job if anyone of them wouldn’t come to work. That day all six of them were laid-off!

My point is… how can somebody just do nothing at all but only believe and let the Holy Spirit do all the work? I am 100% sure that them protestants agree that the Holy Spirit is always working… and working so hard at that to lead us to our salvation. Does having faith alone enough to show they cooperate with the way the Holy Spirit is working in them? I don’t think so. Faith without work is dead.

 

[Greg_Kuglin]

thirdn6, your comment reminds me of a parable. In the story Jesus told of the labourers in the vineyard (Mt 20:1-16), each person recieved the same reward despite the fact that some did far more work than others.
Remember that this story which Jesus tells is to give us deeper insight into to kingdom of heaven (“For the kingdom of heaven is like…” Mt20:1). If amount of work done, and time spent working was not a factor in full payment on the job, then work accomplished and time spent doing it is irrelevant when it comes to salvation. We all receive the same payment from the LORD despite our amount of work.

 

[thirdn6]

This parable is also about conversion. Almost everyone is called. But some are called in their early years, some late in their years. Not only to our separated brethrens but also to our fellow catholics as well. The kingdom of heaven, our salvation, is the payment we receive at the end of the day. One reason we cannot despise others just because we were called ahead or because some are still ‘enjoying their life’ for they might also be called at a later time of the day. The most important thing is must heed and listen to that call and cooperate. We must cooperate with God’s mercy and grace. We must work with Him.

Take another example… the miracle at the wedding in Cana. Our holy Mother asked the men to “Do whatever He tells you to do.” If those people just sat down and said, “ Oh, come on. We believe He can do something all by himself!”, do you think if they never fetched water and filled the jugs there was any miracle? Puff! It’s more of a magic that way isn’t it? Those people cooperated and so they have wine and Mary wasn’t embarrassed! Jesus listened to her.

Ponder also on the beatitudes… It’s all about work!

God bless…

 

[JRKH]

There was a construction foreman who told his 8 men to work overtime on a weekend. They have to finish a certain job because another contractor was supposed to start once their work was done. All his men said yes.
Came Saturday only two showed up. They were not able to accomplish the job. The foreman was so mad.
Came Monday he asked each one of the six privately why they didn’t come to work. Surprisingly, they all have the same answer: “ I thought I was the only one who didn’t show up and I really believe you guys could finish the job without me, I really do!” All six of them believed that the crew could finish the job if anyone of them wouldn’t come to work. That day all six of them were laid-off!

My point is… how can somebody just do nothing at all but only believe and let the Holy Spirit do all the work? I am 100% sure that them protestants agree that the Holy Spirit is always working… and working so hard at that to lead us to our salvation. Does having faith alone enough to show they cooperate with the way the Holy Spirit is working in them? I don’t think so. Faith without work is dead.

Great Parable.

Peace
James