Need Help

[Cliff_Jumper]

“Also, if God is good, then he wouldn’t actually care if you believed in him or not, but whether you lived a good life. But it seems that the Bible teaches that as long as you are forgiven then it’s fine, and you get that forgiveness from a person not effected by the actions of the “sinner””

I got this from an atheist, and I am not quite sure how to respond to it. I know the answer but I cannot put this into words. Weird. Any help would be much appreciated?

So far I have this: "God is perfectly good and He created, loves, and cares for all of us personally. He knows what is best for us and wants that for all of us. God is not a disinterested spectator. "

Any help would be very very much appreciated.

 

[Joe_5859]

“Also, if God is good, then he wouldn’t actually care if you believed in him or not, but whether you lived a good life. But it seems that the Bible teaches that as long as you are forgiven then it’s fine, and you get that forgiveness from a person not effected by the actions of the “sinner””

I got this from an atheist, and I am not quite sure how to respond to it. I know the answer but I cannot put this into words. Weird. Any help would be much appreciated?

So far I have this: "God is perfectly good and He created, loves, and cares for all of us personally. He knows what is best for us and wants that for all of us. God is not a disinterested spectator. "

Any help would be very very much appreciated.

That statement sort of confuses a lot of theological points.

I don’t understand how it would follow that God being all good necessitates that He does not care if we believe in Him. God loves us more that we can imagine. When you love someone, you want to have a relationship with them. What parent would say, “I don’t really care if my children pay attention to me or want to spend time with me, as long as they behave themselves?”

 

[edward_george]

“Also, if God is good, then he wouldn’t actually care if you believed in him or not, but whether you lived a good life. But it seems that the Bible teaches that as long as you are forgiven then it’s fine, and you get that forgiveness from a person not effected by the actions of the “sinner””

I got this from an atheist, and I am not quite sure how to respond to it. I know the answer but I cannot put this into words. Weird. Any help would be much appreciated?

So far I have this: "God is perfectly good and He created, loves, and cares for all of us personally. He knows what is best for us and wants that for all of us. God is not a disinterested spectator. "

Any help would be very very much appreciated.

It’s simple–the argument the atheist is making sets up a false dichotomy between believing in God and living a good life. As Christians, we would counter that living a good life finds its meaning and source and its ultimate end in living a good life for God, which entails believing in Him. How does the atheist know it is a good life? How can he even have a concept of “good” without an ultimate good from which to derive that meaning?

-ACEGC

 

[Iron_Donkey]

"Also, if God is good, then he wouldn’t actually care if you believed in him or not, but whether you lived a good life.

Change that to a “not only but also” and it’d be true. Men are created by God, and it is our purpose to be united with him. Believing in God and working towards this unity is best for us, so in fact believing in God is a large part of living a good life.

But it seems that the Bible teaches that as long as you are forgiven then it’s fine, and you get that forgiveness from a person not effected by the actions of the “sinner”"

I’m not even sure what he means by this. Maybe he doesn’t really know what forgiveness means? Put it this way: the glory of God is a human being fully alive (St. Irenaeus). Those things which God asks of us are in fact bringing us to what is best for us. Being united with God is our end. It’s what we’re for, it’s the best way for us to exist, etc. By our actions we separate ourselves from God. God’s forgiveness brings us back. So by being forgiven, we are brought back to God. Which means that God’s forgiveness is in fact putting us back in the best place we can be after we leave it.

That is, forgiveness is God fixing our mistakes and helping us back to the best form of our existence. To say that “but the bible claims the only thing that matters is forgiveness” in a dismissive way is the same thing as saying “but the bible claims that all that matters is that humans be in the best possible position they can be” in a dismissive way.

I think the problem is your atheist doesn’t understand Christianity. What he denies, for the most part, we would probably deny as well. Here are two long but awesome videos of Fr. Barron speaking that may be of some assistance:

youtube.com/watch?v=tlps1Svr2Fo
youtube.com/watch?v=fDbljMUNBwA

(There’s a fair amount of introduction for each, but once the substance starts it’s very interesting - about 14 minutes in to the first.)

 

[Cliff_Jumper]

Thank you for all your help. I called in my older brother and likened it to parents like Joe 5859.

Atheists sure do confound the argument. Any suggestions. I have been doing this kind of thing for a year and a half. I can handle 98% of it, but sometimes I am just amazed at their level of arrogance.