Need opinion

  • Thread starter Thread starter SElizabeth
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

SElizabeth

Guest
The facebook post below was put on a friend’s wall. She is an evangelical… a very nice person. I read this as a slam to Catholics and was pretty mad about it. Maybe I;m too sensitive and the part about works and abstaining refers to something else? What do you all think? If you think as I do that this is a dig at Catholics, how can I kindly reply to my friend. (I don’t want to get confrontational, mean, etc)

John 14:6 “I AM the Way the Truth and the Life. No man comes to the Father except through Me.” Works fall short, abstaining falls short, knowledge falls short. Jesus is the only way to the heart of God. The TRUTH is that Jesus and the Father are One. (John10:30) It’s a package deal! (: The only way to the Father is through Jesus. The WAY to eternal life is by believing in Jesus for forgiveness of sin. (John 3:16) The abundant and fulfilling LIFE we can enjoy first here on earth is only possible through the power of the Holy Spirit living within us and one day when we’ve drawn our last breath we will be living with God forever. We love the Lord by keeping His Word. (John:14-15-18) Lord, may my life radiate love for You and those around me today, that people may be drawn to YOU!
 
The facebook post below was put on a friend’s wall. She is an evangelical… a very nice person. I read this as a slam to Catholics and was pretty mad about it. Maybe I;m too sensitive and the part about works and abstaining refers to something else? What do you all think? If you think as I do that this is a dig at Catholics, how can I kindly reply to my friend. (I don’t want to get confrontational, mean, etc)

John 14:6 “I AM the Way the Truth and the Life. No man comes to the Father except through Me.” Works fall short, abstaining falls short, knowledge falls short. Jesus is the only way to the heart of God. The TRUTH is that Jesus and the Father are One. (John10:30) It’s a package deal! (: The only way to the Father is through Jesus. The WAY to eternal life is by believing in Jesus for forgiveness of sin. (John 3:16) The abundant and fulfilling LIFE we can enjoy first here on earth is only possible through the power of the Holy Spirit living within us and one day when we’ve drawn our last breath we will be living with God forever. We love the Lord by keeping His Word. (John:14-15-18) Lord, may my life radiate love for You and those around me today, that people may be drawn to YOU!
Why do you think it anti-Catholic? I’m thinking there is nothing we should disagree with in what she wrote, but please let me know if I’ve missed something.

🙂
 
I was all ok except for the works and especially abstinence part. Unless s/he is just talking about abstinence in general, and not using it in reference to Catholic abstinence.
 
John 14:12 “Amen, Amen, I say to you, whoever beleives in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to my Father.” Also, Hebrews 12:8 “If you do not have that discipline in which all children share, then you are illegitimate and not his children.” (Abstinence is a training in discipline.)
 
In this case, I would let it go. I mean you are not fighting to stand regarding the sanctity of life or the importance of the Eucharist, just a possible interpretation potentially against the Catholic faith and at the end of the day, this is not worth allowing anger to creep in, especially not about scripture. God Bless and I will pray for you and your Evangelical friend. 🙂
 
John 14:12 “Amen, Amen, I say to you, whoever beleives in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to my Father.” Also, Hebrews 12:8 “If you do not have that discipline in which all children share, then you are illegitimate and not his children.” (Abstinence is a training in discipline.)
Simply post as a comment to her status what 18trouble wrote. It’s clear to me that she was taking a mild swipe at Catholicism with her comment about “works” and “abstaining.” If you post what I suggest you’re gently letting her know where you stand and that here swipe didn’t go unnoticed. But you’re not starting WWIII.
 
What they have said is true. abstinance bit i don’t know the quote relating to that one.
It’s clearly a swipe at us praying to Christ through mary and the saints. We are still the original church.
 
But she is right, all those things do fall short. That isn’t to imply that they aren’t important; they are, but our salvation is ONLY through Jesus Christ. Obedience follows on, i.e. the works, the abstinance, etc. We are to be obedient to His commandments and to the Church teachings.

edited cuz I can’t spell
 
To be honest, I don’t see anything specifically anti-Catholic in the post in question. But I can readily see how certain people would try to use it as the basis of an attempted refutation of Catholic beliefs and practices. Whether or not this woman intends for her statement to be considered a criticism of Catholicism (wanting the reader to “fill in the blanks”) is unclear.

If I were to engage this person in a conversation, I would simply point out that (objectively speaking) Catholics would agree to what she has stated. If she then says that Catholic beliefs and practices contradict her position and the Scripture passages she quoted, then I would ask her to explain how. It would then come down to a debate over authentic Catholic teaching verses misunderstandings of Catholic teaching. It may also be a debate over a correct interpretation of Scripture. Catholic doctrines do not contradict Scripture, but only contradict certain people’s personal interpretations of it.

As a side note on her abstinence comment, if she is referring to such things as fasting, she is correct. After all, such acts, in and of themselves, do “fall short” if they are not sincerely incorporated into our relationship with God. If that is all that this woman is trying to say, then that is, in my opinion, all well and good.

But if she goes further and suggests that fasting in general has no spiritual merit, or that Catholics are wrong to fast, then that would be a different story. Fasting, when done with the proper attitude and intention, is an important aspect of Christianity, as we can readily see in the following instructions from Jesus…

“And when you fast, do not look dismal, like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, that your fasting may not be seen by men but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.” (Matthew 6:16-18, RSV)

Notice that Jesus does not say, “if you fast” but rather, “when you fast”. It is an expectation, not a suggestion. In this passage he also describes the proper attitude to have when fasting (i.e., don’t fast as a way to get attention and praise from others) and tells us that God will reward us for having fasted.

Then the disciples of John came to him, saying, “Why do we and the Pharisees fast, but your disciples do not fast?” And Jesus said to them, "Can the wedding guests mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? The days will come, when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast. (Matthew 9:14-15, RSV, emphasis added)

Once again, Jesus ascribes fasting to the Church. This is born out in the Acts of the Apostles:

While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off. (Acts 13:2-3, RSV)

And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, with prayer and fasting they committed them to the Lord in whom they believed. (Acts 14:23, RSV)

And, of course, it is worth pointing out that Jesus, himself, fasted in the desert.

But before presenting any of this biblical material to her as an intended rebuttal of her statement, it would be good to first have her clarify what she means when saying, “Abstinence falls short.” Is she actually referring to fasting? And, if so, is she simply saying that fasting in and of itself is not a substitute for having an authentic relationship with Christ? If that is her intention for making the post you quoted, then she is on the same page with Catholic teaching.

The problem at hand is that she used the phrase, “falls short”, and that is a fairly vague term. It would be helpful if she clarified what she means by that term. After all, in light of the material I’ve presented here, fasting can be said to “fall short” or not to “fall short”, depending on the circumstances (as Jesus explained in Matthew 6:16-18).
 
Living in areas that have been overwhelmingly protestant my entire life, I recognize this code-speak. What she is saying in a semi-veiled way, erroneously, is that Catholicism teaches that these things are sufficient.
 
I don’t see anything anti-Catholic. Sometimes I think Catholics get too defensive and sensitive to Protestant language that they appear to be promoting a legalistic works salvation, which is not what Catholicism teaches. Our salvation depends totally on the blood of Christ, nothing of ourselves. We can agree with our Protestant brethren on that. Where we run into divide is the importance of the Sacraments and obedience and holiness. But there are so many variations among Protestants, some are closer to being Catholic than others. We can relate much better with sacramental protestants than non-sacramental protestants.
 
Everything she said is in accordance with Catholic teaching. There is nothing else that saves us except Jesus. Everything else is a means to that end.

Perhaps she is using subtle Protestant-speak, but unless she says something explicitly anti-Catholic or clearly and pointedly misrepresents Catholic teaching, there’s no need to read into her remarks and rattle off a retort.

If you really want to throw her for a loop when she says stuff like this, simply say something like,** “Amen sister! That’s exactly what the Catholic Church teaches!”** Either she will be stunned into silence, or she will have to start questioning you about Catholic teaching which (she might think) contradicts her statement. Then it will be your chance to correct her misconceptions and tell her what the Church *really *teaches. 🙂
 
If you really want to throw her for a loop when she says stuff like this, simply say something like,** “Amen sister! That’s exactly what the Catholic Church teaches!”** Either she will be stunned into silence, or she will have to start questioning you about Catholic teaching which (she might think) contradicts her statement. Then it will be your chance to correct her misconceptions and tell her what the Church *really *teaches. 🙂
Excellent!
 
Thanks everyone for your (name removed by moderator)ut! After much thought I am sure it was little jab to the Church.
I appreciate your taking time to respond. I am not going to say anything this time because it was several days ago. But next time… (and I will be nice) 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top