Needing Advice

[TheBeard]

Hi,

I have been struggling for an answer to my problem and I cannot find anything that specifically deals with my situation. Let me explain a bit.

My wife and I were married over 8 years ago. At the time neither of us were Catholic. I grew up baptist but converted to Catholicism a couple of years after our marriage. My wife is not yet baptized. My wife has always used birth control pills and I have never given it a lot of thought until the last couple of years. I have become more aware of my sins and what I should and should not be doing. Over the last few years we have found that my wife has crohn’s disease and it is severe. She is currently on the Humira shot. Her doctor and the warnings on the medication say that she must use a contraceptive during its usage and up to 5 months after, if she ever goes off of the medication. My wife knows that I do not ever wish to use a condom. As you can guess an issue has come. My wife unfortunately has had some complications with her crohn’s and has to use antibiotics for a period of time. At this point I am very distraught because she will not have intercourse unless I use a condom during this time. I feel like I am in a state of perpetual mortal sin no matter where I turn. I am unable to control my urges for several months and I also don’t want my wife to feel Like I am rejecting her because of her situation. I attempted this for a few weeks and it was a nightmare to say the least. What am I to do… ?

I love my wife dearly and wish to spend the rest of our days together. In light of that and respect for her I have tried not to force my new faith on her. I do make her aware of how I feel at all times and she has also agreed to let me raise our son who is 4 in the church. She grew up believing that birth control is acceptable and will not budge on the matter. But that leaves me with little room to choose when it comes to this. Confession is a great thing and I am truly sorry for the sins. But am I in a state of perpetual mortal sin? If so, how can I stop sinning without rejecting my wife and castrating myself? Sorry to be so graphic but I feel I am in despair because of this. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

P.S. If I have posted in the wrong forums please forgive me and let me know where I should be posting.

 

[southernwriter]

Personally, I don’t believe you’re in a state of mortal sin, especially if your wife is sick. She doesn’t need to have a baby. You have to also remember that the bible says not to hurt God’s temple. I think it would be hurting God temple to put her in a position of getting her pregnant when she’s that sick (just my opinion).

I think a good compromise would be to practice intimacy without intercourse. It can be done.

 

[Anglewannabe]

Is your wife open to natural family planning?

Honestly, I think your best bet is to talk to a priest because this is too big of an issue to solve over the internet

Angie

 

[TheBeard]

Thank you for the help. Unfortunately NFP is not an option with her and she would never sit down with our priest to discuss it. I have considered speaking with him alone but am unsure how to approach the subject.

 

[Rau]

Thank you for the help. Unfortunately NFP is not an option with her and she would never sit down with our priest to discuss it. I have considered speaking with him alone but am unsure how to approach the subject.

Can you expand on why NFP is not an option? Did you know that it is regarded as more effective than condom usage? Compare “Symptom-based Fertility Awareness” (which is NFP) with “Male Latex Condom” in the table at this web site:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods

If you believe the data, the only reason to “prefer” condom would be that a couple has deluded themselves about its effectiveness, and/or they think it allows “any time sex” with no risk of pregnancy.

Also - by identifying ovulation, and then confining sex to the appropriate period between then and her period - you’d be adopting a very conservative “safe” framework.

The other issue on my mind - but I am not sure about this - is whether you commit any sin if you have sex while your wife is taking the pill. You have earnestly asked her to consider NFP, but she has declined. Are you then required to withhold sex from her (normally a wrong thing to do), and deny yourself? I don’t know?

 

[Starrsmother]

Hi,

I have been struggling for an answer to my problem and I cannot find anything that specifically deals with my situation. Let me explain a bit.

My wife and I were married over 8 years ago. At the time neither of us were Catholic. I grew up baptist but converted to Catholicism a couple of years after our marriage. My wife is not yet baptized. My wife has always used birth control pills and I have never given it a lot of thought until the last couple of years. I have become more aware of my sins and what I should and should not be doing. Over the last few years we have found that my wife has crohn’s disease and it is severe. She is currently on the Humira shot. Her doctor and the warnings on the medication say that she must use a contraceptive during its usage and up to 5 months after, if she ever goes off of the medication. My wife knows that I do not ever wish to use a condom. As you can guess an issue has come. My wife unfortunately has had some complications with her crohn’s and has to use antibiotics for a period of time. At this point I am very distraught because she will not have intercourse unless I use a condom during this time. I feel like I am in a state of perpetual mortal sin no matter where I turn. I am unable to control my urges for several months and I also don’t want my wife to feel Like I am rejecting her because of her situation. I attempted this for a few weeks and it was a nightmare to say the least. What am I to do… ?

I love my wife dearly and wish to spend the rest of our days together. In light of that and respect for her I have tried not to force my new faith on her. I do make her aware of how I feel at all times and she has also agreed to let me raise our son who is 4 in the church. She grew up believing that birth control is acceptable and will not budge on the matter. But that leaves me with little room to choose when it comes to this. Confession is a great thing and I am truly sorry for the sins. But am I in a state of perpetual mortal sin? If so, how can I stop sinning without rejecting my wife and castrating myself? Sorry to be so graphic but I feel I am in despair because of this. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

P.S. If I have posted in the wrong forums please forgive me and let me know where I should be posting.

My understanding is that one should not use ANY form of artificial contraception–which would include condoms as well as pills UNLESS they are being used for a purpose other than simply an unwillingness on the part of a couple to allow for the possibility of new life. This would certainly include your wife’s need to be on the pill while on humira. I don’t think you both actually need to talk to a priest together. I think you could run this by your priest and get some peace of mind. Moreover, I read somewhere that you can’t be held responsible for the possible (?) sin of your spouse. Another words, if you are willing to enter into the relationship and for it to be open to new life, there’s absolutely no way for you to force your wife–a non Catholic–not to swallow a pill if she so chooses–short of chopping her fingers off which I wouldn’t recommend! I think you’re okay–and hopefully your wife may convert at some point as well–but she may still may need to stay on the pill when she’s on certain meds!

 

[Caroline723]

Most if not all contraceptive pills have an abortifacient component so one absolutely cannot engage in sex if using them. Are you near a doctor who is a member of the Paul VI institute? Perhaps your wife would be more open to speaking with a doctor about the issue than a priest. In the meantime keep going to confession and don’t lose hope.

 

[Starrsmother]

Most if not all contraceptive pills have an abortifacient component so one absolutely cannot engage in sex if using them. Are you near a doctor who is a member of the Paul VI institute? Perhaps your wife would be more open to speaking with a doctor about the issue than a priest. In the meantime keep going to confession and don’t lose hope.

This is NOT always the case. I know for a fact that there are conditions --medical conditions–with which Catholics are allowed to use contraceptive pills. Endometriosis is one such condition. Another condition is at least some forms of chemotherapy—during which if a woman gets pregnant the baby will be born horribly deformed–not to mention what would happen to the mother should she actually become pregnant while on these meds. A third example is if a woman is on Accutane. I suggest again, speak to your priest–and be sure to lay out your wife’s medical condition totally and why she must be on contraceptive pills as part of the treatment!

 

[Viki63]

As you can see, you get some conflicting advice on these forums.
It is important to discuss this with a knowledgeable priest, but keep in mind that not all priests are on the same page.
I would recommend getting in touch with the Paul VI institute for definitive answers. They will do phone consultations. Click on the Center for NaProEthics link.
It appears that your wife is not taking the pill, as some have assumed. That’s good, because the pill isn’t good for women’s health. But that leaves you with the problem of how to protect her health per her doctor’s orders, and obey the church. NFP is probably your safest bet, but she’s not on board with that.
God understands your dilemma and your desire to please Him. Keep trusting in Him, and do consult with your priest and the institute for solutions.
God bless.

 

[Rau]

This is NOT always the case. I know for a fact that there are conditions --medical conditions–with which Catholics are allowed to use contraceptive pills. Endometriosis is one such condition. Another condition is at least some forms of chemotherapy—during which if a woman gets pregnant the baby will be born horribly deformed–not to mention what would happen to the mother should she actually become pregnant while on these meds. A third example is if a woman is on Accutane. I suggest again, speak to your priest–and be sure to lay out your wife’s medical condition totally and why she must be on contraceptive pills as part of the treatment!

You say “…you know for a fact”? Could you specify what is the source for this ‘fact’, as I’d like to understand the details myself?

In regard to endometriosis, most often the pill is not being prescribed for contraceptive purposes, but for other medical purposes, and the contraceptive effect is purely a side-effect - that is why it is acceptable. Here is a reference: catholicreference.net/index.cfm?id=33323

In regard to Accutane (which treats serious acne), the whole problem might be avoided by seeking a different Acne treatment (if possible).

I am uncertain whether any medical condition provides a case where taking the Pill for contraceptive purposes is permitted. For a married couple (say), there may well be an argument that the pill is being taken as a defence against the potential detrimental effects of the other medications, and not out of a **desire **to disturb the procreative aspect of sex (though that’s clearly the intent/result). Where a genetic predisposition to birth defects is so severe that pregnancy should be avoided, I believe only NFP is acceptable.

For a woman who is not sexually active (in effect - she abstains), then it’s hard to see a moral problem with taking the Pill. That begs the question of why take it at all - but I believe Accutane cannot be prescribed unless contraceptives are in use.

Clearly advice should be sought from an authoritative source.

 

[Starrsmother]

You say “…you know for a fact”? Could you specify what is the source for this ‘fact’, as I’d like to understand the details myself?

In regard to endometriosis, most often the pill is not being prescribed for contraceptive purposes, but for other medical purposes, and the contraceptive effect is purely a side-effect - that is why it is acceptable. Here is a reference: catholicreference.net/index.cfm?id=33323

In regard to Accutane (which treats serious acne), the whole problem might be avoided by seeking a different Acne treatment (if possible).

I an uncertain whether any medical condition provides a case where taking the Pill for contraceptive purposes is permitted. For a married couple (say), there may well be an argument that the pill is being taken as a defence against the potential detrimental effects of the other medications, and not out of a desire to disturb the procreative aspect of sex. For a woman who is not sexually active (in effect - she abstains), then it’s hard to see a moral problem with taking the Pill. That begs the question of why take it at all - but I believe Accutane cannot be prescribed unless contraceptives are in use.

The subject is addressed in Humanae Vitae at some length. If you want TWO sources, here is a link to a Catholic site that explains when using oral contraceptives is legitimate for Catholics. The thin line is this: a Catholic marriage must include the willingness to accept new life. Catholics are NEVER forbidden to utilize known and medically accepted treatments for a bonafide medical condition which they suffer from. Thus, if you are prescribed a medication for a specific medical condition, and the inability to conceive is a side effect–not the primary reason for taking the oral contraceptive–then a Catholic can take the medication in good conscience.

amazon.com/dp/1439102740/ref=pe_71010_23076190_pe_vfe_lm1

I’m a nurse practitioner in women’s healthcare. You may, or may not believe me, but hormonal contraception is THE primary way to treat endometriosis. As long as a woman is cycling naturally, endometrial tissue is flushed up through her tubes and even out into her pelvic cavity every time she has her period. These tags attach all over other organs and they cycle (bleed) along with the woman’s cycle (I’ve seen them attached to ovaries, kidneys and bladders) and they cause extreme pain and will ultimately result in the woman requiring a hysterectomy or her fallopian tubes becoming totally scarred or blocked–ie total sterility! The woman takes the pill until she decides to try for a pregnancy, goes off and gets pregnant, and then goes right back on. This actually preserves her fertility!

Accutane is used for very severe–not run-of-the-mill–acne. It causes HORRENDOUS birth defects over 90% of the time. I know of NO provider who would prescribe Accutane for any woman of child bearing age without putting them on the pill–which also has a very good impact on acne–a 2-for-1, if you will. Humira is another very serious medication used for a number of auto immune conditions. Believe me, nobody in their right mind would want to conceive while it’s on board either. Women with Crohn’s are also normally put on birth control pills as part of recognized medical therapy. Another 2-for-1 if you will.

As a Catholic provider with 5 kids of her own, I respect our church’s teachings about the importance of being willing to accept new life as a married couple. If the gentleman who started this thread were simply trying to find a way around church teaching, I’d be the first to respectfully call him on it. If, however, his wife has Crohn’s–which can in rare but documented cases–result in DEATH if not properly treated–she is not obligated to refrain from needed medical treatment. If that treatment includes oral contraceptives, then she is able to take them. Just sidebar: the woman in question isn’t even Catholic from my understanding of the post.

 

[Rau]

The subject is addressed in Humanae Vitae at some length. If you want TWO sources, here is a link to a Catholic site that explains when using oral contraceptives is legitimate for Catholics. The thin line is this: a Catholic marriage must include the willingness to accept new life. Catholics are NEVER forbidden to utilize known and medically accepted treatments for a bonafide medical condition which they suffer from. Thus, if you are prescribed a medication for a specific medical condition, and the inability to conceive is a side effect–not the primary reason for taking the oral contraceptive–then a Catholic can take the medication in good conscience.

amazon.com/dp/1439102740/ref=pe_71010_23076190_pe_vfe_lm1

I’m a nurse practitioner in women’s healthcare. You may, or may not believe me, but hormonal contraception is THE primary way to treat endometriosis. As long as a woman is cycling naturally, endometrial tissue is flushed up through her tubes and even out into her pelvic cavity every time she has her period. These tags attach all over other organs and they cycle (bleed) along with the woman’s cycle (I’ve seen them attached to ovaries, kidneys and bladders) and they cause extreme pain and will ultimately result in the woman requiring a hysterectomy or her fallopian tubes becoming totally scarred or blocked–ie total sterility! The woman takes the pill until she decides to try for a pregnancy, goes off and gets pregnant, and then goes right back on. This actually preserves her fertility!

Accutane is used for very severe–not run-of-the-mill–acne. It causes HORRENDOUS birth defects over 90% of the time. I know of NO provider who would prescribe Accutane for any woman of child bearing age without putting them on the pill–which also has a very good impact on acne–a 2-for-1, if you will. Humira is another very serious medication used for a number of auto immune conditions. Believe me, nobody in their right mind would want to conceive while it’s on board either. Women with Crohn’s are also normally put on birth control pills as part of recognized medical therapy. Another 2-for-1 if you will.

As a Catholic provider with 5 kids of her own, I respect our church’s teachings about the importance of being willing to accept new life as a married couple. If the gentleman who started this thread were simply trying to find a way around church teaching, I’d be the first to respectfully call him on it. If, however, his wife has Crohn’s–which can in rare but documented cases–result in DEATH if not properly treated–she is not obligated to refrain from needed medical treatment. If that treatment includes oral contraceptives, then she is able to take them. Just sidebar: the woman in question isn’t even Catholic from my understanding of the post.

Ok, where you’re referring to circumstances where the contraceptive effect of the pill is a side effect - there is no issue with that as I set out in my post.

What is not totally clear to me , and for which i’d like to check sources, is whether using the pill as a contraceptive is ok, such as in the Accutane or Humira scenario, where there is a strong motivation to avoid pregnancy. I tend to the view that it is ok if it is a necessary prerequisite to take the associated medical treatment drug, eg. Legal impediment to get it if contraceptives not being used. If the drug is available without taking contraceptives, then I suspect (a catholic) must rely on NFP.

The other scenario is a known genetic threat of a serious deformity or condition. Eg. If two Tay Sachs carriers wish to avoid pregnancy, my understand is that they must use NFP, but not a contraceptive, such as the pill.

 

[TheBeard]

Can you expand on why NFP is not an option? Did you know that it is regarded as more effective than condom usage? Compare “Symptom-based Fertility Awareness” (which is NFP) with “Male Latex Condom” in the table at this web site:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods

If you believe the data, the only reason to “prefer” condom would be that a couple has deluded themselves about its effectiveness, and/or they think it allows “any time sex” with no risk of pregnancy.

Also - by identifying ovulation, and then confining sex to the appropriate period between then and her period - you’d be adopting a very conservative “safe” framework.

The other issue on my mind - but I am not sure about this - is whether you commit any sin if you have sex while your wife is taking the pill. You have earnestly asked her to consider NFP, but she has declined. Are you then required to withhold sex from her (normally a wrong thing to do), and deny yourself? I don’t know?

The reason NFP is not an option is because she has used the pill most of her life and it works. We also have known several people that use the NFP method and it has not worked for them. One person of note is my sister who has had 3 children in the last 4 years. According to her she used the method to the best of her ability and it has not worked. I cant say if she was doing it right or not but in light of this my wife is the type of person to stick to what works for her and wont consider anything else.

Thank you for everyone’s response on the subject. I will speak to my priest about it and seek his guidance.

 

[Starrsmother]

Ok, where you’re referring to circumstances where the contraceptive effect of the pill is a side effect - there is no issue with that as I set out in my post.

What is not totally clear to me , and for which i’d like to check sources, is whether using the pill as a contraceptive is ok, such as in the Accutane or Humira scenario, where there is a strong motivation to avoid pregnancy. I tend to the view that it is ok if it is a necessary prerequisite to take the associated medical treatment drug, eg. Legal impediment to get it if contraceptives not being used. If the drug is available without taking contraceptives, then I suspect (a catholic) must rely on NFP.

The other scenario is a known genetic threat of a serious deformity or condition. Eg. If two Tay Sachs carriers wish to avoid pregnancy, my understand is that they must use NFP, but not a contraceptive, such as the pill.

Rau (am I pronouncing your name right–LOL!) We actually agree with each other–or a nicer way to say it is that I agree with you! In a Catholic woman scenario, IF the woman is using the pill for contraception and that is her primary true reason for using the pill, then she is committing a grave sin. I’ll go one step further, and hope you will agree with the following scenario. Say a Catholic woman is ill, but only marginally so, and she went to her provider and got a prescription for pills and took them daily when in her conscience what she is really thinking is along the lines of “HA! I can now take BC pills because my doc says I PROBABLY might feel better, etc etc and a nice side bennie is that I won’t have to worry about getting pregnant–Oh lucky me!” she is sinning. I say this because she is only getting a small health benefit and in her heart, she knows that the REAL reason she’s taking the pill is for contraception–but thank heaven the doc gave her a Rx based on her health complaint cause now she can take them without feeling guilty. In that case, I think she better start feeling guilty! Another words, the sin is in her heart. Any woman who takes contraception pills knows in her heart what the real reason is that she chooses to do so. I do NOT think that God treats us like high school kids and accepts a note from our doctor!

However, the church doesn’t make us responsible for sins by another family member–even your own wife! A wife could simply choose not to tell her husband that she is on the pill and all along her husband would think that his marriage is open to new life when in fact the door was tightly closed! If her Catholic husband has sex with her, he can’t be sinning because he, himself is open to new life. (The wife is going to hell in a hand basket though! LOL!)

However in the case of the guy we are discussing, his wife is non Catholic and like many protestants feels that artificial contraception is basically perfectly okay and her right. So what is her husband’s responsibility? Certainly to express his feelings to her that as for him, he’s open to a new life. I think it’s pretty obvious that the hubby we are talking about has been there, done that already. Even if she didn’t have Crohn’s what can the husband do? I guess pray for her and continue expressing his position to her–but not to divorce his own wife and trash his family over her choice. However, in this case, the woman has a bonafide medical condition. Even if she were single and a virgin with no plans to become sexually active, her doc would tell her to take the pill for her health along with the humira. I guess what I’m saying is that this guy can really absolve himself of his guilty conscience.
The wife may take birth control pills the rest of her life. Some times she may be on them for a Crohn’s flare–other times mainly for contraception. But in neither case does the husband’s vote count to her! So he has no choice in the matter and cannot be held responsible. And yes with Tay Sach’s etc, NFP is THE only acceptable form of contraception—because the disease isn’t about the woman but about what her baby might have. Just because it would be hard on you to have a Tay Sachs, or a Down’s or a chromosome 18 baby does not mean that you can take the pill to deny it life. God expects us to accept the children he gives us regardless of their handicap or life span–which in Tay Sachs, may not be long!

 

[agapewolf]

The reason NFP is not an option is because she has used the pill most of her life and it works. We also have known several people that use the NFP method and it has not worked for them. One person of note is my sister who has had 3 children in the last 4 years. According to her she used the method to the best of her ability and it has not worked. I cant say if she was doing it right or not but in light of this my wife is the type of person to stick to what works for her and wont consider anything else.

Thank you for everyone’s response on the subject. I will speak to my priest about it and seek his guidance.

How do you know it works? Did you know that the pill can be abortive? How do you know your children weren’t aborted? Did you know that it is a group 1 carcinogen? NFP is more effective than any artificial means of birth control.

Seriously-- it’s poison. It is shutting down a working system of the body. Bad choice.