New GIRM - Creed

[Corki]

At Mass today, they handed out the pew cards with the new translation. At the top of the page with the Nicene Creed, it stated that the Apostles Creed can be substituted especially during the Christmas season.

Is this a new change to the GIRM? I thought the Nicene Creed was to be used with rare exception in the US.

 

[I_Thirst]

As far as I know, it’s always been so – either can be used.

 

[MarkThompson]

As I had understood it, this was a change that appeared first in the 2002 GIRM.

 

[JM3]

At Mass today, they handed out the pew cards with the new translation. At the top of the page with the Nicene Creed, it stated that the Apostles Creed can be substituted especially during the Christmas season.

Is this a new change to the GIRM? I thought the Nicene Creed was to be used with rare exception in the US.

The GIRM has always indicated that the Nicene Creed is used in the Mass.

1970

catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/documentText/Index/4/SubIndex/67/ContentIndex/178/Start/1

1. There are two kinds of bow, a bow of the head and a bow of the body:

a) A bow of the head is made when the three divine Persons are named together and at the name of Jesus, Mary and the saint in whose honor Mass is celebrated.

b) A bow of the body, or profound bow, is made: toward the altar if there is no tabernacle with the Blessed Sacrament; during the prayers, Almighty God, cleanse and Lord God, we ask You to receive; within the profession of faith at the words, by the power of the Holy Spirit; in Eucharistic Prayer I (Roman Canon) at the words, Almighty God, we pray. The same kind of bow is made by the deacon when he asks the blessing before the gospel. In addition, the priest bends over slightly as he says the words of the Lord at the consecration.

1975

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/GIRM.HTM#4

1. There are two kinds of bow, a bow of the head and a bow of the body:

a. A bow of the head is made when the three divine Persons are named together and at the name of Jesus, Mary and the saint in whose honor Mass is celebrated.

b. A bow of the body, or profound bow, is made: toward the altar if there is no tabernacle with the blessed sacrament; during the prayers, “Almighty God, cleanse” and “Lord God, we ask you to receive”; within the profession of faith at the words, “by the power of the Holy Spirit”; in Eucharistic Prayer I (Roman Canon) at the words, “Almighty God, we pray.”

2003

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20030317_ordinamento-messale_en.html

1. The Creed is sung or recited by the priest together with the people (cf. no. 68) with everyone standing. At the words et incarnatus est (by the power of the Holy Spirit . . . and became man) all make a profound bow; but on the solemnities of the Annunciation and of the Nativity of the Lord, all genuflect.

I can find nothing in the GIRM about the Apostles Creed, just this from the USCCB.

usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/sacraments/eucharist/structure-and-meaning-of-the-mass-backgrounder.cfm

In many Masses, the Nicene Creed follows the homily. The Nicene Creed is a statement of faith dating from the fourth century. In certain instances, the Nicene Creed may be replaced by the Apostles’ Creed (the ancient baptismal creed of the Church in Rome) or by a renewal of baptismal promises, based on the Apostles’ Creed.

 

[MarkThompson]

The GIRM has always indicated that the Nicene Creed is used in the Mass.

. . .

I can find nothing in the GIRM about the Apostles Creed, just this from the USCCB.

You’re right, it’s not in the GIRM – it’s a rubric in the text of the Missal itself.
Loco symboli nicaeno-constantinopolitani, praesertim tempore Quadragesimae et tempore paschali, adhiberi potest symbolum baptismale Ecclesiae Romanae sic dictum Apostolorum.

Instead of the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, especially during Lent and Easter Time, the baptismal Symbol of the Roman Church, known as the Apostles’ Creed, may be used.

 

[Corki]

You’re right, it’s not in the GIRM – it’s a rubric in the text of the Missal itself.
Loco symboli nicaeno-constantinopolitani, praesertim tempore Quadragesimae et tempore paschali, adhiberi potest symbolum baptismale Ecclesiae Romanae sic dictum Apostolorum.

Instead of the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, especially during Lent and Easter Time, the
baptismal Symbol of the Roman Church, known as the Apostles’ Creed, may be used.

Thanks. Interestingly, the missalette still says that the Nicene Creed is to be said on Sundays and that the Apostles Creed may be substituted for Masses with Children.

The GIRM makes it sound like the Apostle’s Creed is actually preferred during Lent and Easter. I tried to Google it but just found statements from individual Bishops regarding their own dioceses.

Again, thanks.

 

[thistle]

The GIRM has always indicated that the Nicene Creed is used in the Mass.

1970

catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/documentText/Index/4/SubIndex/67/ContentIndex/178/Start/1

1975

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/GIRM.HTM#4

2003

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20030317_ordinamento-messale_en.html

I can find nothing in the GIRM about the Apostles Creed, just this from the USCCB.

usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/sacraments/eucharist/structure-and-meaning-of-the-mass-backgrounder.cfm

Where in the GIRM does it say the Nicene Creed must be said at Mass. As far as I can tell it simply states the Creed must be said. It does not specify which one.
Here in the Philippines the Nicene Creed is never said at Mass. We only use the Apostles Creed.

GIRM:

The Profession of Faith

1. The purpose of** the Creed** or Profession of Faith is that the whole gathered people may respond to the Word of God proclaimed in the readings taken from Sacred Scripture and explained in the Homily and that they may also honor and confess the great mysteries of the faith by pronouncing the rule of faith in a formula approved for liturgical use and before the celebration of these mysteries in the Eucharist begins.
2. The Creed is to be sung or said by the Priest together with the people on Sundays and Solemnities. It may be said also at particular celebrations of a more solemn character.

If it is sung, it is intoned by the Priest or, if appropriate, by a cantor or by the choir. It is then sung either by everybody together or by the people alternating with the choir.

If it is not sung, it is to be recited by everybody together or by two choirs responding one to the other.

 

[JM3]

Where in the GIRM does it say the Nicene Creed must be said at Mass. As far as I can tell it simply states the Creed must be said. It does not specify which one.

From the 2003 GIRM:

1. The Creed is sung or recited by the priest together with the people (cf. no. 68) with everyone standing. At the words et incarnatus est (by the power of the Holy Spirit . . . and became man) all make a profound bow; but on the solemnities of the Annunciation and of the Nativity of the Lord, all genuflect.

‘by the power of the Holy Spirit … and became man’ is not in the Apostles Creed.

 

[MarkThompson]

From the 2003 GIRM:

1. The Creed is sung or recited by the priest together with the people (cf. no. 68) with everyone standing. At the words et incarnatus est (by the power of the Holy Spirit . . . and became man) all make a profound bow; but on the solemnities of the Annunciation and of the Nativity of the Lord, all genuflect.

‘by the power of the Holy Spirit … and became man’ is not in the Apostles Creed.

That is dealt with by the following rubric contained within the Missal itself (underline emphasis added):
Loco symboli nicaeno-constantinopolitani, praesertim tempore Quadragesimae et tempore paschali, adhiberi potest symbolum baptismale Ecclesiae Romanae sic dictum Apostolorum.

Credo in unum Deum Patrem omnipoténtem, Creatórem caeli et terrae, et in Iesum Christum, Fílium eius únicum, Dóminum nostrum,

Ad verba quae sequuntur, usque ad María Vírgine, omnes se inclinant.

qui concéptus est de Spíritu Sancto, natus ex María Vírgine, passus sub Póntio Piláto, crucifíxus, mórtuus, et sepúltus, descéndit ad ínferos, tértia die resurréxit a mórtuis, ascéndit ad caelos, sedet ad déxteram Dei Patris omnipoténtis, inde ventúrus est iudicáre vivos et mórtuos. Credo in Spíritum Sanctum, sanctam Ecclésiam cathólicam, sanctórum communiónem, remissiónem peccatórum, carnis resurrectiónem, vitam aetérnam. Amen.

---

Instead of the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, especially during Lent and Easter Time, the baptismal Symbol of the Roman Church, known as the Apostles’ Creed, may be used.

I believe in God, the Father almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,

At the words that follow, up to and including the Virgin Mary, all bow.

who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried; he descended into hell; on the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.

 

[Phemie]

The Nicene Creed was required at Mass until the 2002 Missal. Canada had an indult to use the Apostles Creed, and it’s quite possible that the Philippines had one too. Nobody could tell me WHY Canada had requested an indult, but I do know that it was a rare occasion when he heard the Nicene.

With the 2002 Missal came the option of using either Creed.

 

[YoungTradCath]

The Nicene Creed was required at Mass until the 2002 Missal. Canada had an indult to use the Apostles Creed, and it’s quite possible that the Philippines had one too. Nobody could tell me WHY Canada had requested an indult, but I do know that it was a rare occasion when he heard the Nicene.

With the 2002 Missal came the option of using either Creed.

I don’t like using the Apostles’ Creed. It makes me feel like the priest is calling the congregation too stupid to understand the Nicene Creed. Is it really that hard, and do our priests really have that low of an opinion of us? I’m glad it doesn’t happen at my parish, but the Apostles’ Creed has been used several times at parishes I’ve been to mass at, and on the most random occasions.

 

[thistle]

I don’t like using the Apostles’ Creed. It makes me feel like the priest is calling the congregation too stupid to understand the Nicene Creed. Is it really that hard, and do our priests really have that low of an opinion of us? I’m glad it doesn’t happen at my parish, but the Apostles’ Creed has been used several times at parishes I’ve been to mass at, and on the most random occasions.

How about when praying The Rosary?

 

[YoungTradCath]

How about when praying The Rosary?

Always used the Nicene Creed. Never even heard of anybody using the Apostles’ Creed

 

[I_Thirst]

Always used the Nicene Creed. Never even heard of anybody using the Apostles’ Creed

Just the opposite here. I’ve always heard/prayed the Apostles’ Creed for the rosary.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Just the opposite here. I’ve always heard/prayed the Apostles’ Creed for the rosary.

Nice.

 

[Phemie]

Always used the Nicene Creed. Never even heard of anybody using the Apostles’ Creed

I have never heard anyone use the Nicene Creed when saying the Rosary. I never heard the Nicene Creed until we had Mass in the vernacular.

 

[YoungTradCath]

I have never heard anyone use the Nicene Creed when saying the Rosary. I never heard the Nicene Creed until we had Mass in the vernacular.

Lol, wow. Regional thing I guess.

 

[thistle]

Always used the Nicene Creed. Never even heard of anybody using the Apostles’ Creed

Although the Rosary is a private devotion and not mandatory the recommended Creed for the Rosary is The Apostles Creed. I have never heard of anyone using the Nicene Creed with the Rosary.
On all the Rosary leaflets and booklets its the Apostles Creed.

I’m a member of the Rosary Confraternity.
rosary-center.org/howto.htm

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Always used the Nicene Creed. Never even heard of anybody using the Apostles’ Creed

It’s always the Apostle’s Creed for the rosary. That’s what I learned growing up pre-Vat II, we never said the Nicene. I don’t think it was said in Mass until after Vat II.

After 20+ years away from Church, I found I still know the words of the Apostle’s Creed.



It’s not the Creed for Dummies, by the way. It’s simple and elegant and gets all the important bits in.

 

[puzzleannie]

At Mass today, they handed out the pew cards with the new translation. At the top of the page with the Nicene Creed, it stated that the Apostles Creed can be substituted especially during the Christmas season.

Is this a new change to the GIRM? I thought the Nicene Creed was to be used with rare exception in the US.

yes this has always been the case, it can also be used of course in Masses for children, and in Lent, especially in Masses with the RCIA context.