New ICEL Mass translation

[JKirkLVNV]

Teresita:

Where’s ‘before time began’? I couldn’t find it - nor did I see the confusion you mention.

While I don’t have much time for over-the-top traddies, the points the guy makes are generally irrefutable. I’ve spent a fair amount of time singing the Latin NO Mass, and comparing the texts (yes, I know I should have been lost in prayer, but you try singing Latin in a choir and losing yourself in prayer at the same time), and the texts are translated very loosely - indeed, I’d call many of them paraphrases rather than translations. It’s all very well to use ‘dynamic equivalence’, but a lot of the ICEL version is dynamic without being in the least equivalent.

There are smaller differences as well, which the guy on that site doesn’t mention - not, perhaps, so noticeable, but in some cases, deeply significant. I’ll just quote one.

After the Lord’s Prayer, the priest prays as follows (I give English, with the Latin in blue):

Deliver us, Lord, from every evil,
Lìbera nos, quaesumus, Dòmine, ab òmnibus malis

and grant us peace in our day.
da propìtius pacem in dièbus nostris,

In your mercy, keep us free from sin
ut, ope misericòrdiae tuae adiùti, et a peccàto simus semper lìberi

and protect us from all anxiety
et ab omni perturbatiòne secùri
as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Saviour, Jesus Christ. :
exspectàntes beàtam spem et advèntum Salvatòris nostri Jesu Christi.

The bit I’d like to draw your attention to is the penultimate line in the English: ‘as we wait…’. The Latin, translated, actually reads: “[as we are] awaiting the blessed hope and coming of our Saviour…” It’s the Second Coming which is the ‘blessed hope’; in the English, it’s our emotions which are blessed. This is characteristic of the ICEL translation throughout: we are important - certainly too important to beseech or implore or humbly ask (almost all those phrases, which abound in the Latin, are simply cut out in the English.

I’m not asking for a ‘Latinate’ translation, although there might be worse things - just something which is faithful to the Normative Rite: and that, the ICEL translation simply isn’t.

Sue

No, no, I wasn’t commenting on the translations. I don’t know enough about it to comment. I was commenting on the article, which we were asked to do, and the site, which we weren’t asked to do. He had the different translations in two columns, one headed NO, the other ICEL. I think he has his column’s titles reversed. As for the site, I’m weary of people’s denigration of the Mass of Paul VI, of the Council, of the popes since Pius XII. The crack about the “real Catholic Church” got to me. The “real Catholic Church” is the One in union with the successor to Saint Peter. The “real” Catholic is the one who submits his will and obeys. I caught absolutely no sense of that in this site. This makes me inclined to dismiss whatever he says, which I know to be wrong (an ad hominum attack, as it were). Nonetheless, I’m tired of the harping on the Mass of Paul VI. Abuses have the potential to occur in any mass: the rushed “25 minutes! Let’s see Father Smith beat that!” Mass that sometimes occured in the pre-VII days, the congregation silent or praying their rosaries while the Sacrifice was being offered, the responses being made only by the altar servers. Read Richard Marius’ book on Luther, the part where Luther talked about attempting to offer his Mass at St. Peter’s, while the priests who were to follow him stood there hissing at him,“Get on, get on!” or the priests making a mockery of the Latin, knowing the common folk wouldn’t understand, ie, “Bread thou art, bread thou shalt remain!” The rad trads make everything pre-VII sound like a liturgical Shangrila. It doesn’t sound like it to me! Nonetheless, I’ve attempted to be put my self in their shoes: How would I feel if the Mass of Paul VI was suddenly abrogated? I’d feel terrible, so I always cheerfully hope that they get their Indult to celebrate the TLM. There’s room for both in my estimation. Sorry for the diatribe, I’ve read one to many rad-trad posts, I suppose, and it was a long day! As for the "Born of the Father before time began," it was listed as the ICEL’s translation of that portion of the creed. I think it sounds, well, odd. Don’t we believe that the Holy Trinity existed from eternity, in all It’s Persons? This kind of sounds like there was a “time” when Christ was not. Granted, it was before "time, " but still…

 

[netmilsmom]

JKirkLVNV:

I’m sorry, I don’t understand what you mean.

I’m sorry, I addressed the wrong poster!