New Movement among Catholic/Christian Youth

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Hey all,

I was just wondering what you think of the sort of ‘counter culture’ that is sort of sweeping the nation amongst the youth, especially within Catholic youth. I’m speaking of the rallies and conferences that a lot of kids are going to. Particularly OIL (one in love) conference, and school organizations like Campus Crusade (CRU), Intervarsity and others. I’ve been to some of these meetings and events, and as a Catholic man who was raised in a traditional catholic households finds a lot of the things that are taught and many of the speakers say at these conferences and events very questionable. They don’t seem to have any sort of theological or dogmatic backing to what is said, and seems that the whole point of these groups is to try and make Jesus your friend, and establishing a relationship with God. Now this doesn’t seem bad on the outside, it seems like it’s done in an irreverant or disrespectful manner.
Personally I don’t see how waving your arms around and clapping your hands is respectful. Many of my friends who go to these say they clap and stuff is because they are feeling “God’s spirit working through them”. Anyways, I was just wondering if any of you have any experience with Christian groups like these, what you think, and if I should steer clear of people from them. I was part of a group like this for while, and it almost seemed like it was brainwashing, and I definitely went through a period of doubting my own faith because of it. Any help please!!!😃
 
wahlmaster said:
Hey all,

I was just wondering what you think of the sort of ‘counter culture’ that is sort of sweeping the nation amongst the youth, especially within Catholic youth. I’m speaking of the rallies and conferences that a lot of kids are going to. Particularly OIL (one in love) conference, and school organizations like Campus Crusade (CRU), Intervarsity and others. I’ve been to some of these meetings and events, and as a Catholic man who was raised in a traditional catholic households finds a lot of the things that are taught and many of the speakers say at these conferences and events very questionable. They don’t seem to have any sort of theological or dogmatic backing to what is said, and seems that the whole point of these groups is to try and make Jesus your friend, and establishing a relationship with God. Now this doesn’t seem bad on the outside, it seems like it’s done in an irreverant or disrespectful manner.
Personally I don’t see how waving your arms around and clapping your hands is respectful. Many of my friends who go to these say they clap and stuff is because they are feeling “God’s spirit working through them”. Anyways, I was just wondering if any of you have any experience with Christian groups like these, what you think, and if I should steer clear of people from them. I was part of a group like this for while, and it almost seemed like it was brainwashing, and I definitely went through a period of doubting my own faith because of it. Any help please!!!😃
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My immediate reaction was… “I think you’re crazy”. :rolleyes: But on second thoughts, I can sort of agree with some of what you’re saying - like how it doesn’t always seem very reverent.
However… I went to a conference like this last summer - one of the Steubenville conferences - and it was the best time of my life. I learned a lot and experienced Adoration for the first time - something I’d barely even heard of before.
I did not go through a period of doubting my own faith because of it. I’d already been going through a period of doubting my own faith because I’m fourteen and… well… like it or not, that’s what most teenagers do. This conference, however, definitely helped answer some of my doubts, not create more.
I took very little interest in anything to do with Church before last summer’s conference, but now… well… where do I start? I attend Mass every week now… I love to talk about my faith… Even just the fact the I’m a member of the CAF now says something.

So other people may have differing opinions, but I for one am looking forward excitedly to the next Steubenville conference 🙂

-Anne
 
wahlmaster said:
Hey all,

I was just wondering what you think of the sort of ‘counter culture’ that is sort of sweeping the nation amongst the youth, especially within Catholic youth. I’m speaking of the rallies and conferences that a lot of kids are going to. Particularly OIL (one in love) conference, and school organizations like Campus Crusade (CRU), Intervarsity and others. I’ve been to some of these meetings and events, and as a Catholic man who was raised in a traditional catholic households finds a lot of the things that are taught and many of the speakers say at these conferences and events very questionable. They don’t seem to have any sort of theological or dogmatic backing to what is said, and seems that the whole point of these groups is to try and make Jesus your friend, and establishing a relationship with God. Now this doesn’t seem bad on the outside, it seems like it’s done in an irreverant or disrespectful manner.
Personally I don’t see how waving your arms around and clapping your hands is respectful. Many of my friends who go to these say they clap and stuff is because they are feeling “God’s spirit working through them”. Anyways, I was just wondering if any of you have any experience with Christian groups like these, what you think, and if I should steer clear of people from them. I was part of a group like this for while, and it almost seemed like it was brainwashing, and I definitely went through a period of doubting my own faith because of it. Any help please!!!😃
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I remember going to Stubenville conferences as a high schooler as well and I must say that these conferences have helped me as I have gone to a confused Catholic college to defend my faith. I think this “counter culture” that you are referring to is definitely something to watch, but I also think that conferences like what you are referring to are useful starting points for exposing teens to the good points of faith (and not just what the media or secular society tells them about faith.)
The organizations you mention, why there might be problems, is that Intervarsity and Campus Crusade for Christ aren’t Catholic. (These are mainly Evangelical Free groups.) You have to know what denomination your group supports. (Stubenville is Catholic, probably one of the better outreaches for Catholics that I see currently in our country.)
I hope these thoughts help.

Grace and Peace,
Adam
 
My advice is instead of going to such groups, study the fathers, the Magisterium and the great dogmatic encyclicals of Pius XI and Pius XII at www.papalencyclicals.net; with these foundations you can pray for the conversion of the Protestants and reach out to them.
 
wahlmaster said:
Hey all,

I was just wondering what you think of the sort of ‘counter culture’ that is sort of sweeping the nation amongst the youth, especially within Catholic youth. I’m speaking of the rallies and conferences that a lot of kids are going to. Particularly OIL (one in love) conference, and school organizations like Campus Crusade (CRU), Intervarsity and others. I’ve been to some of these meetings and events, and as a Catholic man who was raised in a traditional catholic households finds a lot of the things that are taught and many of the speakers say at these conferences and events very questionable. They don’t seem to have any sort of theological or dogmatic backing to what is said, and seems that the whole point of these groups is to try and make Jesus your friend, and establishing a relationship with God. Now this doesn’t seem bad on the outside, it seems like it’s done in an irreverant or disrespectful manner.
Personally I don’t see how waving your arms around and clapping your hands is respectful. Many of my friends who go to these say they clap and stuff is because they are feeling “God’s spirit working through them”. Anyways, I was just wondering if any of you have any experience with Christian groups like these, what you think, and if I should steer clear of people from them. I was part of a group like this for while, and it almost seemed like it was brainwashing, and I definitely went through a period of doubting my own faith because of it. Any help please!!!😃
Click to expand...
Steve Wood, who has a radio show called Faith and Family, discussed a related topic on one of his show several months ago and completely exposed the problems with such movements. I wish I had a link to send you.

He used to be a Protestant minister. At the time, he studied the “revivalism” that is found in Protestantism, which is similar to what you are describing. He studied its principles in depth as wel as its history. This is what he found, which I think is exactly correct…

Such emotional gathering appeal primarily to the lower nature -our emotions, whereas true Christianity appeals to the intellect and will. That which appeals merely to the emotions quickly fades.

These emotional pep rallies are actually destructive to the faith. They might seem good when people return with a lot of enthusiasm, but that disguises the real problem. These movements are destructive because they turn the faith into something of the emotions, which is not only a weak foundation, but fades quickly. Therefore, they constantly need these “pep rally’s” in order to preserve their (emotional) “faith”.

The true faith (which is a thing of the intellect and will), is replaced by a counterfiet that is of the emotions. In the end, as Steve discovered, people become bored with such and immature “faith” and give it up all together.

His radio show was excellent. You might be able to send him an e-mail (along with this post so he knows what show you are talking about), and have him e-mail you a copy of the show.

If you get it, post it here so we can listen to it.
 
Pax_et_Caritas said:
These movements are destructive because they turn the faith into something of the emotions, which is not only a weak foundation, but fades quickly. Therefore, they constantly need these “pep rally’s” in order to preserve their (emotional) “faith”.

The true faith (which is a thing of the intellect and will), is replaced by a counterfiet that is of the emotions. In the end, as Steve discovered, people become bored with such and immature “faith” and give it up all together.
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I agree with you there!

I started to watch an HBO documentary this weekend (didn’t finish it, I fell asleep) called Hard As Nails. It follows a theatrical “Catholic” Youth Minister, who doesn’t seem to have much grounding in the precepts of our Faith. I’ll watch it again. has anyone else seen it?

I think it gives an insight into this movement, but also shines a light on how poorly catechised people rely on these gatherings and not the Mass to feed them.

I liken it to the perpetual argument about praise & worship music:
  • Is there anything wrong with it? Not when its theologically sound.
  • How do you know if its theologically sound? By understanding your Faith, not because the song “moves you.”
  • Is it meant to replace the Mass? No.
  • Is it meant to “augment” the Mass? No.
Same questions apply with these charismatic youth teams!
 
I attend a Catholic high school. In my observation this “counterculture” is really shallow, not very informed by theology and spirituality more meaningful than “God is great!!! Abortion is evil!!!” Basically people like to feel like its their certain group vs. the world so thats what this does. However ironically, at my school at least, this group is all the very trendy, mainstream kids. I am more or less a counter culture (the Woodstock kind not the hard as nails kind) guy myself (minus some things obviously) and all my friends who fit into some genuine counter culture or another and are devout Catholics (or Orthodox, Protestant) have no use for this pep rally mentality. They read Church Fathers, are very deep into theology etc. So Im not trying to sound self righeous like me or my friends are better or something, but yeah, its probably just a fad people are going through.
But hey - what care I but that the Gospel is preached. If this gets people into Jesus and leads them to explore their faith more deeply as a previous poster said it did for her then I think its great!
 
Miserissima said:
I agree with you there!

I started to watch an HBO documentary this weekend (didn’t finish it, I fell asleep) called Hard As Nails. It follows a theatrical “Catholic” Youth Minister, who doesn’t seem to have much grounding in the precepts of our Faith. I’ll watch it again. has anyone else seen it?

I think it gives an insight into this movement, but also shines a light on how poorly catechised people rely on these gatherings and not the Mass to feed them.

I liken it to the perpetual argument about praise & worship music:
  • Is there anything wrong with it? Not when its theologically sound.
  • How do you know if its theologically sound? By understanding your Faith, not because the song “moves you.”
  • Is it meant to replace the Mass? No.
  • Is it meant to “augment” the Mass? No.
Same questions apply with these charismatic youth teams!
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I did watch the Hard as Nails program, and I came away with Mixed thoughts.

He had some good points, I do wish he pushed the Sacraments more, but he is bringing hearts to Christ and seems to bring about real change

He is really on fire for his Catholic faith, and since it seems Fr. Larry Richards Endorses him then I can accept the Hard as nails program but I do think it needs to be regulated by the diocese
 
wahlmaster said:
Hey all,

I was just wondering what you think of the sort of ‘counter culture’ that is sort of sweeping the nation amongst the youth, especially within Catholic youth. I’m speaking of the rallies and conferences that a lot of kids are going to. Particularly OIL (one in love) conference, and school organizations like Campus Crusade (CRU), Intervarsity and others. I’ve been to some of these meetings and events, and as a Catholic man who was raised in a traditional catholic households finds a lot of the things that are taught and many of the speakers say at these conferences and events very questionable. They don’t seem to have any sort of theological or dogmatic backing to what is said, and seems that the whole point of these groups is to try and make Jesus your friend, and establishing a relationship with God. Now this doesn’t seem bad on the outside, it seems like it’s done in an irreverant or disrespectful manner.
Click to expand...
A distinction needs to be made. There are the protestant charismatic/evangelical groups that may or may not have strong anti-Catholic sentiments. There are Catholic charismatic groups that are questionable in their adherence to Church teaching and the rubrics of the Mass. There are also Catholic charismatic groups that are orthodox and stick to the rubrics of the Mass. I’m not a fan of any of that- but different people have different preferences.

I would love it if everyone liked to go to the Traditional Latin Mass, and was enthusiastic about Gregorian chant and renaissance polyphony. I like those things- I believe they are the best outward expression of what the Mass is. I would rather someone go to a charismatic Catholic Mass (that follows the rubrics, of course- no standing around the altar or anything like that) and be on fire for their faith than to go to a more traditional liturgy and not care- or worse, leave the Church altogether.
wahlmaster said:
Personally I don’t see how waving your arms around and clapping your hands is respectful. Many of my friends who go to these say they clap and stuff is because they are feeling “God’s spirit working through them”. Anyways, I was just wondering if any of you have any experience with Christian groups like these, what you think, and if I should steer clear of people from them. I was part of a group like this for while, and it almost seemed like it was brainwashing, and I definitely went through a period of doubting my own faith because of it. Any help please!!!😃
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Many of my friends attended this conference recently called the “One In Love” conference. They came back with some bizarre ideas, and I was wondering if anyone knew anything about this conference at all?
 
Here’s some information I found on the One in Love conference browsing around the internet

winteroil.org/index2008.php

this is the official website as far as I can tell. (take note that among the parishes at the bottom of the page there are no Catholic churches.)

Grace and Peace,
Adam
 
But what must be remembered is that sometimes we need our base emotions cared for. I love reading the Fathers, Encyclicals, etc. but sometimes I just want to sing and praise God. And that’s where Steubie comes in. You get both, believe it or not. Charismatics and Traditionalists can live side by side quite well. Heck, I think I scare the people next to me at Mass because I do occasionally put my hands in the air during the Praise and Worship time before Mass starts. And I am wearing a mantilla at the same time! :eek:
There are too many people trying to make it an “us vs. them” situation when it is a “we” situation.
Now, if a group is not adhering to the Magistarium (on both sides), then something needs to be fixed. But if both groups are adhering to everything we have been given, then I see no problem.
 
This really shows a huge problem in our MODERN culture. This modern culture of “if it FEELS good, then it must be right” But this is not the Church at all. The Church knows what is right, and holds the complete truth, it doesn’t matter who doubts, feels, etc.

Christ enters us through the Eucharist. I don’t know why anyone would want some revivle thing, something that we don’t even know for sure what you are feeling is from the Holy Spirit. But Christ enters for SURE, you can see the Host.

Just to end, I have been to these things. “Catholic” approved too. Then I had gone to two that were protastant and they were so similar and I ended up questioning the Catholic Faith. They are dangerous.
 
jj2011 said:
My advice is instead of going to such groups, study the fathers, the Magisterium and the great dogmatic encyclicals of Pius XI and Pius XII at www.papalencyclicals.net; with these foundations you can pray for the conversion of the Protestants and reach out to them.
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You do know there is more to religion than locking yourself in a room and reading lots of old documents right?
 
Yeah religion requires that you go out and participate in communal events. Now I’m not saying that charismatic praise and worship is the be all end all for spirituality because it’s not, but if it’s Catholic approved I’m not going to say anything (especially because I’ve had some good experiences at these kinds of events.)
(Going to these events helped me to grow in my faith, think of it as like a foot in the door, depending on the supplemental material provided at the conference, that is where the teaching comes in.) Reading church doctrine is of utmost importance, but if it makes us forget our place in the greater community this is a hazard we should seek to avoid (even people called to cloister life has some sort of community.)
And also an important thing to note, a lot of times Christian religions borrow things from each other (kind of like how some protestant denominations have informal confession between the pastor and individual members of the congregation.) So the protestant conferences can look similar because they copied from us :).
Grace and Peace,
Adam

P.S. I agree with what Patience and Love has to say.
 
Hi there and peace of Our Lord Jesus be with you all!
Originally Posted by Miserissima I started to watch an HBO documentary this weekend (didn’t finish it, I fell asleep) called Hard As Nails. It follows a theatrical “Catholic” Youth Minister, who doesn’t seem to have much grounding in the precepts of our Faith. I’ll watch it again. has anyone else seen it?
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I in fact did see it, and am in it- and am a member of Hard As Nails. Justin is a very close friend of mine, and certainly has his roots grounded in the Catholic faith. Justin is a loving man, who knows his Catholic faith extremely well. He does adopt some evangelical and secular approaches in regards to delivery, but he is a firm Catholic, who acknowledges the teaching authority of the Magesterium, and follows it. Do watch again and I’d love to converse.

In fact, out of Hard as Nails there has been one man to enter the seminary, who will be an excellent, and REVERENT Priest, and one discern a vocation to the CFR’s; as well as many others who are in discernment process and are deciding on whether to enter an order, the seminary, or to have a marriage that is Christ centered and puts to use the principles outlined in John Paul II “Theology of the Body”.

Justin has inspired many people, and that inspiration has lasted in the hearts of many of my close friends, who all live their life in accordance to the teachings of Jesus Christ,as carried on through the Church that he founded.

God Bless,

Carl
 
If they are not sanctioned by the Catholic church, I suggest that you steer clear of them.
 
They are endorsed by many Holy and Orthodox Catholic Priests such as Father Larry Richards, a guest on Catholic Answers Radio this past week, as well as a good friend of Justin’s for about 11 years or so, Father Bryan Page from NJ, Father Agostino CFR, and Msgr. Sheering, President of Seton Hall University, to name just a few.
 
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