New Movie on Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre

[TertiumQuid]

While I don’t exactly remember the details, I do remember reading that Luther, towards the end of his life, supposedly said that he wished everyone would forget everything he wrote and practice the faith in the same ways as the early Church.

Perhaps this is part of what CWBetts is referring.

You may be thinking of this Luther quote.

 

[palmas85]

I must say that you are an incredible person. You have the tenacity of a pitbull that has latched on to a victim and refuse to let go no matter how disgusting you get.

Not that I have anything to prove to you, I watched a tv show called Testament by John Romer probably 20 years ago. I remember him saying something to the effect of what I quoted from my post. If it matters so much to YOU, then go rent the series and see it for yourself . Incredibly, you still attack me for something THAT I DID NOT EVEN SAY. Instead of “rushing in to defend a fellow progressive” I was simply trying to further the argument.

But to be totally honest, I could really care less what you think. Instead of lecturing me on Martin Luther, a subject I am all familiar with, perhaps you can take a bit of time to contemplate the uncharitable attitude it is to attack someone for things they did not say nor things they did not insinuate. Is this a virtue of a “traditional” Catholic?

Show me where I said that Luther was reconciled to the Church before he died and I’ll eat my hat.

Otherwise, be an adult and a man and admit that you were wrong.

Show me where I said you said Luther was reconciled to the Church before he died and I’ll eat mine. From your post it looked as if you were trying to offer some form of proof to back up Betts claim from your own experience. Hey you jumped with an unverified statement of something you said you may have read. Now it is that you may have heard something on TV merely to the effect of what you posted.. What will it be tomorrow? The truth is Tim, you don’t have a clue as to exactly what what you heard,if you heard anything at all that relates to the discussion at hand. If you didn’t have anything to offer beyond that why jump in at all?.It didn’t further the conversation it merely denigrated it. . As to as you being familiar with Martin Luther, you may be. It doesn’t really seem like it, but you may be. In fact Tim,you don’t really appear to be too familiar with much of anything at all except hatred and disgust for those who do not share your view of the faith, of which you do seem to have a surplus. Even more than you used to from the way it looks.

Oh and Tim, I really don’t care much for what you think either.
But I do hope that you have a nice night.

 

[palmas85]

You may be thinking of this Luther quote.

Now that quote is vintage Luther:thumbsup:

I wish everyone who thinks he reconciled with the Church would read that one.

 

[Abenadar]

What is it about this particular subject that brings out such strong negative feelings??

There’s a lot to it, and I guess I might be able to list a few things since I used to be on one side of the argument and am now on the other.

From the OF point of view the SSPX are/were:

Use arguments that don’t hold water to justify their existence
Disobedient
Leadership (was) excommunicated
Proud
Arrogant
Loud-mouthed
Anachronistic/outdated
Unwilling to submit to legitimate authority
Unwilling to accept new dogmas of Vatican II
Schismatic
Practitioners of a rite that had been abrogated
Like Luther, breaking away to make their own church
A cult
Continue to provide illicit/invalid sacraments to date

From the SSPX point of view:

Deny most everything in the list above and have attempted to prove it
Unfairly dealt with by JPII and Rome
Feel Vatican II is problematic and contend that no new dogma was pronounced
Maligned/misrepresented by Catholic hierarchy to the faithful at large
Dealt with uncharitably by ‘mainstream’ Catholicism at large while heretics and non-Catholics were treated warmly
Weren’t given a fair hearing
Mocked for their arguments even when they were right (TLM not abrogated, no schism etc.)
Rely on “supplied jurisdiction” for administering the sacraments.

All I’m gonna say is that I’m glad they are having their doctrinal talks with Rome now. Deo Gratias.

 

[Timothysis]

In fact Tim,you don’t really appear to be too familiar with much of anything at all except hatred and disgust for those who do not share your view of the faith, of which you do seem to have a surplus. Even more than you used to from the way it looks.

Back at ya.

 

[Patrick_Eastin]

The topic of this thread is a new movie not Martin Luther and certainly not each other. Please return to the topic of this thread.

 

[marlo]

the only 3 people iknow who died like this is Judas, Arius and Felix Manalo, all of them did not believe the deity of christ

NO, it is not true and CWBetts cannot provide a link. CWBetts ‘source’ is word of mouth from her/his priest. No paper documentation though. It is plain fiction.

 

[Jitpring]

Well, I’ve just finished reading this fascinating thread. CWBetts, you don’t acquit yourself well (and this is a charitable way of putting it) - and not just because you still haven’t provided that citation. I hope you don’t accurately reflect the F.U. Steubenville.

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

That is a shameful comment…and it shows just how little you know or understand about Catholicism and the current crisis we are in

I am fairly new to the faith. Excuse me if I am not intimately familiar with the biographies of 3000+ saints. That being said, refusal to submit to legitimate authority is frowned upon. There are precedents for such a thing, but must be considered the exception, not the rule. I put Lefebvre in the same camp as Luther. Difference being that Luther reconciled with the Church before his death.

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

Archbishop Lefebvre did not commit any act which would require excommunication…they were a sham to begin with…and if he were excommunicated…then perhaps with a Church filled with “Catholics” who share beliefs such as yours…then really, I would consider that a blessing, not a punishment

Does not change the simple fact that Lefebvre outright disobeyed ecclesial authority. St. Athanasius, from what I read was not excommunicated, nor did he have any kind of ecclesial judgment from the Pope. I stand by my comparison to Luther.

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

No, because he failed to do the The Catholic way…the way they were done for 1960+ years…thats why

Only because he didn’t do things your way.

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

That is rumored…but we know what they say about rumors…he sure did leave behind a legacy of heresy. The Archbishop on the other hand NEVER ONCE tried to set up a parrallel hierarchy in The Church and longed for reconciliation…the SSPX states its Fillial devotion to The Holy Father to this day…there was no desire for a split. Why are you someone that apparently has a love affair with Luther but hates Lefebvre? Especially when it is clear that Archbishop Lefebvre remained a devout Catholic till his death

I also tend to believe it because Luther himself never really intended to form a new church, but enact reforms in the Catholic Church

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

The only uncharitable post I have seen on this board is from you…you have made inflammatory, unsubstantiated accusations and attempted to slander a good man’s reputation and name and his mission…that man being none other than Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre…while at the same time, placing a formal and material heretic on a pedestal…Martin Luther. I don’t know what they teach in Steubenville, but I used to have respect for that place as an institution of higher learning…I heard it was a solid Catholic university, but if this is what they are teaching, it should be shut down immediately for impersonating a Catholic university.

There is paper documentation, but as how I don’t see him very often (in that I infrequently make it to my home parish) some time will be required to satisfy you uncharitable SSPX types.