New RE-PSR-CCD Fees vs donation thread

[puzzleannie]

Have at it folks, it is that time of the year, when parishioners expect me to educate 800-1000 students grades K-12 and prepare nearly 100 adults for sacraments without charging any fees for books, supplies and materials. So give me your best shot.
what is the practice in our parish
what is your opinion about that practice
what alternatives to funding parish RE do you suggest
what are you doing in your parish to stimulate change

 

[JoanREDirector]

As you can see from my screen name, I’ve had your job (I’m now retired) so I speak from experience. We charged a fee - DUH! How do these things happen otherwise?

On each application form, however, we had this note, “If this fee is a burden, scholarships are available. All inquiries are confidential.” All fees were waived for anyone who indicated that they needed help. Their request was enough; no documentation or explaination was ever required. A few never paid and didn’t ask. We never said a word … just treated them and their children like the sons and daughters of God that they are.

We are a poor parish with lots of immigrants still the vast majority paid in full. We had no formal scholarship fund but the Knights of Columbus gave us a generous donation every year. Kind grandparents stepped up and some families paid more than we asked because they knew the need.

We’re always pinching pennies and our staff is chronically overworked and underpaid but the work always seems to go on year after year.

 

[twopekinguys]

As you can see from my screen name, I’ve had your job (I’m now retired) so I speak from experience. We charged a fee - DUH! How do these things happen otherwise?

On each application form, however, we had this note, “If this fee is a burden, scholarships are available. All inquiries are confidential.” All fees were waived for anyone who indicated that they needed help. Their request was enough; no documentation or explaination was ever required. A few never paid and didn’t ask. We never said a word … just treated them and their children like the sons and daughters of God that they are.

We are a poor parish with lots of immigrants still the vast majority paid in full. We had no formal scholarship fund but the Knights of Columbus gave us a generous donation every year. Kind grandparents stepped up and some families paid more than we asked because they knew the need.

We’re always pinching pennies and our staff is chronically overworked and underpaid but the work always seems to go on year after year.

Ditto for our parish. We do it just the way you did/do

 

[PattiDay]

Our parish is small. The practice is to have the parish pay for books, materials, and supplies for children. If a teacher purchases something additional, they may submit a receipt for reimbursement. I have receipts from additional items I purchased, but never submitted them. I know they would have been honored, had I submitted them. I suspect that all the volunteers have out-of-pocket expenses that they absorb. I’ve never asked, nor have I been asked.

Our parish is probaly no better able to support the number we have than is your parish, but I think there is a concern that if we were to assess a fee, some parents would simply not send their children rather than to possibly be considered (although it would be confidential) to be in need of help. It’s a delicate situation like that Joan describes.

As for adults, they are asked to pay for the book used in class (I’ll estimate $15), but if someone doesn’t have a Catechism or Bible, one is provided and the person is not asked to pay, although most offer.

What is the practice of other parishes in your diocese? In our diocese it is clearly a mix.

 

[Joannm]

I think it is great that you have a parish where there is no fee for Religious Ed. Here in our parish, I would say that 75-80% of the families in our Religious Ed program are non supporting, meaning we get no donations from them at all. We have a full time DRE and two full time secretaries and one part time and we still have to get volunteers to do some of the work. We have three school buildings that we use…so there is heat, electricity,and maintenance that cost the parish money. Our diocese requires certain things in addition to books. BTW we have over 1,000 kids in the program and at $13 a book that is $13,000 for books alone. Then there are other supplies. We have speakers come in that are paid. We have materials for parents that have to be printed in addition to other printing costs and office supplies. If every family gave $5 or $10 a week then maybe we wouldn’t need to charge a fee. But has it is, the 25% that do come to mass and contribute doesn’t even cover the salary of the DRE. Then there are mandated conferences for the DRE that the diocese charges a fee to attend. There are costs associated with sacramental celebrations (the organist and cantors want to be paid).

If someone can’t pay then they can let the pastor know and they won’t be charged.

 

[Z1Z2]

I pay $35 per child. I don’t know if that covers all the costs, since I don’t know what the books would cost if I bought them myself. I think the fee is fine, given the quality of the materials my daughter has brought home. This year I will be paying for 2, which I confess will hurt at the same time I am paying for all the usual back to school fees. However, I don’t know how’d you get around that problem, short of changing the CCD schedule, and that is not feasible. We are a fairly small, rural parish, but there is enough money here that I have not heard any grumbling at $35 per child (there may be a max fee for lots of kids).

 

[PJM]

Have at it folks, it is that time of the year, when parishioners expect me to educate 800-1000 students grades K-12 and prepare nearly 100 adults for sacraments without charging any fees for books, supplies and materials. So give me your best shot.
what is the practice in our parish
what is your opinion about that practice
what alternatives to funding parish RE do you suggest
what are you doing in your parish to stimulate change

God Bless you!

IMO except for RCIA, it is the correct practice to charge and have reasonable fees for ALL RE… a case by case [special needs] to be determined and granted by the DRE.

One expects to PAY for the schol education, why in the world ought parents not pay for there RE? And YES, I’m WELL AWARE of how difficult things are. BUT we are talking here are at least trying to SAVE souls!

Thank you for your ministry!

God Bless you,
Pat

 

[puzzleannie]

for the record: annual per-pupil cost this year for books, materials and supplies (does not include staff salaries or overhead a/c etc). this also is for classroom time only, does not cover retreats, special programs, or the cost of extra instruction on the new Roman missal

Grades 1-6 $32.50
First confession (in addition to the above) $12.50
First communion (in addition to the above) $24
RCIA-Children (in addition to the above) $54

Grades 7 & 8 $22 (no sacramental prep included)

Grades 9 & 10 - Confirmation and HS CCD
$37.50 (divided 2 yr cost to get annual cost)
does not include retreats, any meals or snacks, transportation, or fees involved in service projects.

Post-Confirmation $25

Our “donation” is $25 per student per year, with family discounts for multiple children
and has not change for over 15 years although overhead has more than doubled in that time.

Adult RCIA $25 (does not include retreat or any expenses inherent in liturgy itself)

the costs for sacramental prep do not include any expense attached to liturgy or sacramental rites themselves, only expense to the CCD program

none of this includes cost associated with CAtechist formation. we could have another thread just on that topic: should catechists pay for their own formation?

 

[inasad]

Wow, I have to pay $100 per kid per year. When I taught my child’s class (volunteer, of course), I still had to pay the full fee. Ridiculous, if you ask me.

 

[puzzleannie]

Wow, I have to pay $100 per kid per year. When I taught my child’s class (volunteer, of course), I still had to pay the full fee. Ridiculous, if you ask me.

as I said those average costs are only for supplies and resources I purchase through the CCD office. does not cover salary and benefits for DRE, part-time secretary, or the portion of the deacons’ and sisters’ stipends that go toward this work. Nor does it cover overhead and A/C can be over $100 a day in the summer months (8 months a year here). My old parish had to rent meeting space in local schools since the did not have a hall and that was the bulk of the $100 per family fee. If you are concerned why not ask for a breakdown.

If I charged for Confirmation as a package deal, they way they do where my grandchildren are confirmed, including the Retreat, service projects etc. it could easily reach $400-500 per candidate

 

[Ridgerunner]

I never paid for this for my children, nor do my children pay for my grandchildren, because all have attended Catholic schools (except high school for two of my children and two grandchildren).

But I think maybe a couple of things are worth mentioning. My wife and I are in two parishes for historical reasons. One does an excellent job of paying for the catholic school and the other doesn’t, and here’s why.

Parish #1. Church built long ago and well kept up by donations and volunteer labor. It’s so beautiful (built by Germans, decor by Poles) that people from all over pay to have their weddings there. They even get protestants at least asking if they can have their weddings there. (no deal, of course) Grade school (1-8) building paid for and lots of volunteer upkeep. The grade school gym serves as the parish hall for all purposes. Very unified parish that has a number of very successful fundraisers each year; some specifically for the school. I’ll never forget in one “silent auction” they held, one lady paid over $1,000 for a patchwork quilt made by the school kids. I remember another guy who donated a gold Kruegerrand for a raffle. Another donated a restored classic car. Another (a farmer) donated a whole beef he raised and had butchered at his expense. One man and his wife laid out the not inconsiderable cost of buying a full funnel cake maker, so they can make them for parish events. Tuition is $500 per child per year.

Parish #2. Just couldn’t live without building a “parish hall” (adult entertainment center)that cost millions. The remaining debt on that eats up the weekly collection. Fundraisers are few and are generally duds. Older church building that was once beautifl too, has been hideously “modernized” on the cheap. Not much in the way of volunteer labor. Parish divided, with a coterie of pushy “take charge” people who manage to alienate a lot of parishioners. Grade school (1-6) tuition is just short of $3,000/year.

Parish #2 is a lot richer parish than Parish #1, or the population is, but the weekly collection is about 2/3 what it is in Parish #1. The parish populations are about the same. Ages are about the same. The “take charge” people in #1 are very nice, and if you can pony up something significant this year, that’s fine, if not, that’s fine too. But it’s a “soft touch”, and they come around personally, unlike Parish #1 where they call you on the phone if they even do that. The teachers themselves do that in #1, and it’s really nice.

Now, I donate to both parishes and work events at both. But I’ll readily admit that I absolutely welcome working at Parish #1 and really don’t like working at #2. There’s a difference in dedication and spirit in the two.

When it comes down to supporting religious education for public schoolers, I would say the situations are probably similar. A lot has to do with just how people feel about Catholic education specifically, and about their parish in general.

But something I learned back in my political days. If you want somebody to do something, you need to ask, and in person. If I were running a religious education program, I think I would mount a campaign to “make R.E. free”. I would get some of the most dedicated parents to go around for donations, and I would put together some fundraisers with the emphasis being on the kids doing the work themselves for the most part. Once you get people to something like a fair or a dinner (which they’ll do if their kid is working a booth or tables) they’ll spend money. But you have to ask them to come and tell them why they ought to come.

 

[puzzleannie]

I But something I learned back in my political days. If you want somebody to do something, you need to ask, and in person. If I were running a religious education program, I think I would mount a campaign to “make R.E. free”. .

you are right about this, for this reason I don’t make a general announcement asking for CCD teachers, but do one on one recruiting and ask my catechists to do the same, ask other parishioners and staff to recommend people. My pastor backs up the idea of donations only RE, to bad the parish does not in general and as everyone here knows my bias is toward stewardship spirituality as a parish and diocesan commitment, ie tithing. We are not allowed to do fund-raisers for RE although we do accept and ask for donations and get about half our classroom and office supplies this way, and some big ticket items like AV equipment. In a given year about 2/3 of families pay something, the suggested donation being $25 per child. Since the economy tanked it is half, if that.

bear in mind that time spent on fund-raisers is time taken away from the goals and tasks of whatever program you are running.

 

[Allegra]

My current parish charges $30 for each notebook. The classes are taught by two sisters and several volunteers. About this time of year, the parish publishes a PSR wishlist in the bullitin. This is a list of materials that the program needs and the members of the parish generally come through. (The same practice is done for VBS) They’ve also been able to get Target and Joanne’s Fabrics to donate supplies for special events. Children in sacrament years as asked to make a donation of at least $25 but this is not mandatory. 8th graders have a retreat they go on and I’m told it’s about $150. I’m not sure if the retreat is required or not but I know there are scholarships and parents who chaparone don’t have to pay their child’s fee.

The parish I’m moving to requires $200 for PSR! I’m told that the main purpose of this high fee is to “weed out” the families who don’t take it seriously. I find any attempt to “weed out” children from receiving Jesus completely disgusting.

 

[KarenElissa]

I find any attempt to “weed out” children from receiving Jesus completely disgusting.

I don’t think the idea is to weed out children from receiving Jesus. The problem is when you have a ton of children sign up and rarely come. It makes planning difficult, you start out planning for 20 kids, but 15 show up every week, and of those, 10 show up every week, the others come in and out. You never know how many supplies to have, and eventually start planning for 15, but then one random week everyone happens to show up. And add to that, when the kids come in and out, you spend time every week trying to help kids catch up on what happened last week. And that isn’t fair to the kids who are there.

So I doubt the idea is to push people away, but more so to encourage them to participate consistently. If people pay for something, they tend to be more likely to take it seriously.

 

[Allegra]

So I doubt the idea is to push people away, but more so to encourage them to participate consistently. If people pay for something, they tend to be more likely to take it seriously.

Actually, “weed out” was the priest’s exact words. The idea isn’t that the parents will take it more seriously if they pay for it, the idea is that parents who don’t take it seriously won’t be willing to pay the exorborant fee and won’t be pestering the program with their antics. Thus, their innocent children are deprived of a religious education.

I’m fully aware or the difficulties of teaching a class which has poor attendance. However, as a public school teacher, I’ve never been afforded the luxury of being able to “weed out” students who didn’t come to class or didn’t take the class seriously. I’m expected to teach the children regardless of where they are coming from and if it’s difficult, I just have to suck it up and try to come up with something creative that will help motivate the kid and his parents. I sort of expect that my children’s religion teachers would do as much. I mean, PSR is kinda important!