New Thought cosmology

[Juansavage]

Can anybody take one of the statements below and tell me why it doesn’t make sense:

Ernest Holmes - Wikipedia

• I believe in God, the Living Spirit Almighty; one, indestructible, absolute and self-existent Cause. This One manifests itself in and through all creation, but is not absorbed by its creation. The manifest universe is the body of God; it is the logical and necessary outcome of the infinite self-knowingness of God.
• I believe in the incarnation of the Spirit in all, and that we are all incarnations of the One Spirit. I believe in the eternality, the immortality, and the continuity of the individual soul, forever and ever expanding.
• I believe that Heaven is within me and that I experience It to the degree that I become conscious of it.
• I believe the ultimate goal of life to be a complete emancipation from all discord of every nature, and that this goal is sure to be attained by all.
• I believe in the unity of all life, and that the highest God and the innermost God is one God.
• I believe that God is personal to all who feel this indwelling Presence.
• I believe in the direct revelation of Truth through my intuitive and spiritual nature, and that anyone may become a revealer of Truth who lives in close contact with the indwelling God.
• I believe that the Universal Spirit, which is God, operates through a Universal Mind, which is the Law of God; and that I am surrounded by this Creative Mind which receives the direct impress of my thought and acts upon it.
• I believe in the healing of the sick through the power of the Mind. I believe in the control of conditions through the power of the Mind. I believe in the eternal Goodness, the eternal Loving-kindness and the eternal Givingness of Life to all.
• I believe in my own soul, my own spirit, and my own destiny; for I understand that the life I live is God. Amen. And So It Is.

 

[Fauken]

What is this for?

 

[Juansavage]

I know people who believe this

 

[Fauken]

I’ll take a stab at a few.

I believe in God, the Living Spirit Almighty; one, indestructible, absolute and self-existent Cause. This One manifests itself in and through all creation, but is not absorbed by its creation. The manifest universe is the body of God; it is the logical and necessary outcome of the infinite self-knowingness of God.

If God is self-existent, then the finite universe cannot be His “body”, whatever that is.

I believe in the incarnation of the Spirit in all, and that we are all incarnations of the One Spirit. I believe in the eternality, the immortality, and the continuity of the individual soul, forever and ever expanding.

What on earth is “the Spirit”? We are not gods. We are not God. If we are part of creation (and thus created), we cannot have eternal souls: eternity is for all time, and we have not existed for all eternity.

I believe that Heaven is within me and that I experience It to the degree that I become conscious of it.

What arrogance. And seems to further the idea that we are all gods.

I believe the ultimate goal of life to be a complete emancipation from all discord of every nature, and that this goal is sure to be attained by all.

What on earth is “discord”? And “nature”? If I’m sure to attain it, why bother with finding (and taking action) to find Heaven in myself? Heaven will just come to me, apparently, no matter what I do.

I believe in the unity of all life, and that the highest God and the innermost God is one God.

Now they’re just outright saying they believe they’re all gods.

I believe that God is personal to all who feel this indwelling Presence.

Which is to say, whatever I feel like no matter how contradictory that may be. If I feel his indwelling presence with hedonism and another with celibacy, this is all apparently equal. God is apparently whatever I feel like, which is to say, nothing.

I believe in the direct revelation of Truth through my intuitive and spiritual nature, and that anyone may become a revealer of Truth who lives in close contact with the indwelling God.

God is apparently whoever and whatever. There is no truth in this system.

I believe that the Universal Spirit, which is God, operates through a Universal Mind, which is the Law of God; and that I am surrounded by this Creative Mind which receives the direct impress of my thought and acts upon it.

Another point saying we’re all gods. And seems to imply that the universe bends to our will. So why do I need this god again since I’m all powerful?

 

[Fauken]

I believe in the healing of the sick through the power of the Mind. I believe in the control of conditions through the power of the Mind. I believe in the eternal Goodness, the eternal Loving-kindness and the eternal Givingness of Life to all.

Same as above. And if they can cure sickness, they sure are cruel for not eradicating all pestilence in the world already.

I believe in my own soul, my own spirit, and my own destiny; for I understand that the life I live is God. Amen. And So It Is.

And there it is. We’re god. I don’t need them then. In fact, my personal truth says theirs is rubbish and isn’t truth.

Truth isn’t truth if everything is it.

 

[Vico]

Can anybody take one of the statements below and tell me why it doesn’t make sense:
…

1. The manifest universe is the body of God;
R1. Pantheism and emanationist beliefs are contrary to Catholic dogma. (Vatican I) Pantheism definition: “a doctrine which identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God.” – Oxford Dictionaries
Vatican I:

If anyone says that finite things, both corporal and spiritual, or at any rate, spiritual, emanated from the divine substance; or that the divine essence, by the manifestation and evolution of itself becomes all things or, finally, that God is a universal or indefinite being which by self determination establishes the totality of things distinct in genera, species and individuals: let him be anathema .

2. I believe in the incarnation of the Spirit in all, and that we are all incarnations of the One Spirit.
R2. Catholic theology affirms that mankind is made in the image and likeness of God but that angels and humans do not have divine natures, rather there may be participation in divine nature.

3. I believe the ultimate goal of life to be a complete emancipation from all discord of every nature, and that this goal is sure to be attained by all.
R3. Catholic theology states that some attain heaven and others hell.

 

[vz71]

I believe in the healing of the sick through the power of the Mind. I believe in the control of conditions through the power of the Mind. I believe in the eternal Goodness, the eternal Loving-kindness and the eternal Givingness of Life to all.

When was the last time cancer was cured in this manner?

 

[vz71]

I believe in my own soul, my own spirit, and my own destiny; for I understand that the life I live is God. Amen. And So It Is.

So…my life is actually god.
What exactly does this mean?

I believe in the unity of all life, and that the highest God and the innermost God is one God.

Wait a second…I thought my life was god. So who are these? How exactly is god defined?

I believe in God, the Living Spirit Almighty; one, indestructible, absolute and self-existent Cause.

Well, this says god is the causeless cause, but doesn’t really give us anything else to work with.

Sounds like a bunch of new age platitudes.
Someone knows the sounds, but has no idea the meaning of the words. So they string sounds together in meaningless strings.

 

[Inquiry]

For a start, this doesn’t come out and say it, but it is throwing the physical world and especially our own physicality under the bus. Notice the terminology: He believes that he experiences Heaven to the extent he is conscious of it. He believes the the ultimate goal of life is emancipation" from discord. Etc.

He is either saying that the world is dross that needs to be ascended past (which makes no sense because he also describes the universe as God’s body, so there’s nothing outside of it), or he is saying that the world needs to be abandoned in favor of the true spirit that is within (which again, makes no sense because he describes the universe as God’s body)

Also note the other major contradiction. God supposedly has infinite self-knowingness. The Universe, including ourselves, is supposedly his body. Further, we are allegedly incarnations of this self-knowing Spirit. Yet we need to somehow come to conscious awareness of this despite the fact that as incarnations we should already be self-knowing.

 

[TryingtoGainFaith]

A desperate attempt to be God, no surprise his mind was as silly as Eve.

 

[IWantGod]

Can anybody take one of the statements below and tell me why it doesn’t make sense:

It doesn’t make sense because the person saying it is essentially asserting that they are God and everyone is God and so is anything, and it leaves one wondering what exactly is it that is meant by the word God and does it really have any meaning or point to it other than being a bunch of words huddled together producing only the illusion of significance.

Logically speaking we are talking about an emergent-God, a pantheistic God, and that would contradict the idea of an uncaused-cause. So i would reject it because it doesn’t make any ontological sense.

But when has metaphysics stopped anyone from believing in absurd things or creating meaning out of thin air.

 

[SPONP4US]

I used to believe similar things to this, “used to” being the operative term, before my re conversion and return to the Church, faith in God, and finally seeing Jesus present all through my life.

We should all pray for those who hold these types of beliefs as much as those who are Atheists. If your freinds believe this, please pray hard for them. I didn’t have freinds to pray for me when I was lost.

 

[EndTimes]

believe in the healing of the sick through the power of the Mind. I believe in the control of conditions through the power of the Mind.

This doesn’t make sense…

For Jesus Teaches nothing of the Sort.

 

[OneSheep]

I believe in God, the Living Spirit Almighty; one, indestructible, absolute and self-existent Cause…

Hi Juan, it sounds like you have been getting a bit of negative feedback on Holmes’ belief system, but it might be good to find some items that are basically congruent with out own faith. There are many belief systems in the world, and we can rest assured that the Holy Spirit is working in all of these systems, bringing every human in every place closer to the light of truth and the fellowship of all those who God loves (everyone).

So here are some general impressions of my own:

St Ignatius lays out the spirituality of coming to “see God in all things”. Through prayerful relationship including reflection, introspection, and allowing ourselves to see beauty, this can become a person’s experience. While it is a little unnerving for people to hear “God is everything” (and I don’t believe it either) I don’t find any harm in someone framing the world, the universe with this language. Pantheism does not jibe with Catholic teaching, but it is not exactly “dangerous” in my observation. For example, if Holmes’ “seeing God is all things” leads to a valuation of people that leads to many acts of charity, this would be a beautiful result.

I believe in the incarnation of the Spirit in all

This is not contrary to Catholic theology, depending on how that statement is interpreted.

I believe that Heaven is within me and that I experience It to the degree that I become conscious of it.

If I remember right, there are Catholic theologians who say that Jesus was not as concerned about the afterlife as we have come to be. He was promoting the Kingdom “on Earth as it is in heaven” and was teaching repentance (change of mind) to benefit the believer here and now. Jesus talk of the “yoke is easy and the burden light” is a freedom that can be realized as a follower, it is a good life, a life pleasing to God in that it is focused on charity. St. Paul’s reference to the “true self” can be seen as congruent, to some degree, with the notion of “heaven within us”.

 

[OneSheep]

emancipation from all discord

Jesus: forgive

unity of all life, and that the highest God and the innermost God is one God

Monotheism

God is personal…

An statement on individual prayerful relationship, not contrary to Catholic teaching.

anyone may become a revealer of Truth who lives in close contact with the indwelling God

Possibly, but Catholics (and Christians in general) believe that the “revealer” is Jesus, and while revelation unfolds over time, that unfolding is validated by the Church. Jim Jones thought he was revealing truth, and any person can make the same claim. If there is anything a little bit “dangerous” in what Holmes said, it is this one that can get a little slippery.

I believe that the Universal Spirit…

“Holy Spirit” seems to fit the same description.

I believe in the healing of the sick through the power of the Mind.

This particular belief is a bit abstract, and I think that if people sat down and agreed on a list of definitions, what Holmes said is possibly more understandable. As stated, it has initiated some understandable reactions on this thread.
Since he is saying that even his mind is part of God (I think), then he is not saying anything super radical (that healing comes from God).

I believe in my own soul, my own spirit, and my own destiny; for I understand that the life I live is God.

I don’t have a problem with this in that it is completely self-contradictory. Our own autonomy as somehow connected with God yet separated is completely mysterious, and we don’t really have words to adequately describe the phenomenon.

Ephesians 4:

4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

So while through the incarnation we share in Divinity (as revealed) we are not God. It’s all rather mysterious.

I ask myself, “what good can come from this person’s belief?”. I try to avoid judging people’s beliefs.

I know people who believe this

I think that these people you know can find a loving, accepting community in the Catholic Church. Through Eucharist, we proclaim the very unity valued by Holmes and we find that unity in who we see as God Himself, in Jesus.

Yes, there are people who can be a little judgmental in all groups, but we have much in common with the gist of what Holmes is saying!