New York City Politics Involving Cash and Credit

  • Thread starter Thread starter meltzerboy2
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

meltzerboy2

Guest
As a New Yorker, I find this an interesting subject, and one which I had not known about until this evening. The issue involves the fact that there are certain stores in The Bronx, NY which do NOT accept cash, only credit cards for purchases. One of the main reasons appears to be fear of being held up for cash. Possible other reasons include efficiency of customer transactions and even cleanliness. According to one councilman in The Bronx, this behavior is discriminatory against poor people who live in The Bronx and do not have any credit or who have a poor credit rating. These people need to pay for services, including food, in hard cash. Now, it seems to me that, although the business owners have a legitimate reason for not accepting cash, they are also making it more difficult for many of their customers to purchase their services. Frankly, I am not sure it makes sense for them to operate their businesses in this manner from a purely financial point of view. Further, does a store owner have the legal right to deny a cash transaction? Many businesses do not accept checks for fear of fraud, but cash, which can be detected if counterfeit? And credit cards are not exactly the safest means of transaction either. So what do you think about this issue from a social-justice perspective? Is it fair to people who have no credit cards? Is it fair for store owners to deny them this way of conducting business even though they are open to the general public? Your thoughts?
 
Last edited:
I’m sure the businesses also accept debit or cash cards, which are a very good way to carry your cash and work regardless of your credit rating.
 
Perhaps they do. But they do not accept hard cash, even for small items. Is such a policy legal?
 
I think it does make it difficult for people that do not have a lot of money and live paycheck to paycheck. Often, they do not have so much as a savings account. I do not have a debit card. I do use mostly a credit card unless it is a minimal amount and then I pay cash.
 
I agree with you. I can understand operating a “luxury” business this way, but not a bodega. Now, the fear of being held up is still real although The South Bronx is not quite as dangerous as it used to be. Nonetheless, what about honest customers who need to pay for essential items in cash?
 
Well, from a Social Justice Standpoint, I think that not accepting cash, a well as the direction the City is taking on minimum wage is going to loop around and bite the poor until they are bleeding profusely.

I don’t want to get into a long-winded debate about minimum wage as too many proponents of raising it are oblivious to the economic theory or diminishing returns. And the SJWs, operating on far more emotion than logic won’t even slow down and take a breath, let alone ask "Why?’ when small businesses start closing because they are paying out more than they are taking in.
 
I know a couple of businesses that only deal in cash. I know a doctor who will not take cash, but he will take checks. I guess everyone has their reasons, but it should be made clear at the door to save people any embarrassment either way.
 
That assumes the ability to get a back to provide you with an account. There are many, many working poor who do not qualify.
 
It does sound like discrimination because there are people who go through unforeseen life events that result in losing points in their credit score so they do not qualify for credit cards until they rebuild their credit history, which takes years.
 
I suppose there is a three-pronged attack on small businesses: too many regulations, higher rents (especially in New York), and raising the minimum wage. But I think the latter has its proponents that also make some sense: that is, more money for workers means more money to spend. My gut says the higher minimum wage is good for the economy, both workers and business owners. My head says we should factor in the principle of diminishing returns for the working poor. However, I am sure the working poor, who are struggling just to survive, do not have the luxury to reason according to economic theories.
 
Last edited:
If you’re gung-ho pro-free-market, you could probably argue that the businesses have a fundamental right to establish their own practices. By this thinking, the free market would just “take care of it” when consumers stop patronizing the cashless businesses and take their crisp, green dollars elsewhere.

There’s some merit to that idea, but overall it over-simplifies matters, particularly when you consider goods and services with little competition. In food deserts, for example, the working poor must travel long distances to a supermarket.

Cashlessness can also backfire on small businesses because banks and credit card companies charge those awful fees for transactions. I know of a couple of local businesses in my hometown that don’t accept plastic. They reason that they’ve lost less money from bad checks than from the “plastic fees.”

Interesting topic! I poked around online and learned that it’s quite the controversy in NYC. A group of New York City councilmembers moves to ban some “cashless” establishments, arguing that they are racist. | Seth Barron, City Journal

What are the crime stats for robberies? NYC is already so heavily mass surveilled. Isn’t that supposed to help curb crime?
 
There could be an issue of it being unreasonable, or even, under certain circumstances, immoral. But as a store owners choice, unless their motives are discriminatory, I don’t see how they bear any responsibility to take a method of payment that they aren’t bound to take.

However, I can imagine a store owner hiding their true motives behind a false one, like fear of robbery. A store owner may not want the ‘riff raff’ who use cash in their store - teenagers, kids, homeless people. IMO, that may turn it into a social justice issue because now the issue isn’t the method of payment, but discrimination.
 
Last edited:
otjm said:
That assumes the ability to get a back to provide you with an account. There are many, many working poor who do not qualify.
Click to expand...
I don’t like this store policy myself, but I also think the number of people impacted is very small. Most people do have a credit, debit, or cash card.

I believe the policy is legal and has been tested in the courts.
https://www.expertlaw.com/library/consumer-protection/it-legal-refuse-cash-payment

They might have to prove the intent was to discriminate rather than to avoid robbery.
 
FWIW, in 2008 a lot of cash was removed (disappeared) from circulation and the Fed was pressured to replace it. They figured it was some big time players who were causing the problem. During the Depression you had a similar problem of the banks having insufficient funds to return cash to depositors. The low interest rate climate does not exactly encourage people to keep money in the bank or hold CD’s either.
 
meltzerboy2 said:
Further, does a store owner have the legal right to deny a cash transaction?
Click to expand...
Some stores in DC and at state highway rest stops have done this for years, especially after certain hours.
Given that virtually everyone I know uses a card now including those who are not well-off - they get debit cards, or cards where you load a certain amount of money on it - I’m not seeing the issue. A debit card or money card of some sort is something everybody now has even if they’re poor, like a mobile phone. Even the people on welfare around here use state-issued cards with their benefits loaded to their card. They don’t receive cash, and the cards don’t work for items the state doesn’t let them purchase with benefits. I can see why stores don’t want or need to keep cash on hand or mess with it.
 
Last edited:
Theo520 said:
They might have to prove the intent was to discriminate rather than to avoid robbery.
Click to expand...
Which is highly unlikely, since a store selling normal daily goods like food or drugstore stuff and operating in some neighborhood wants the residents’ business.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top