Newlywed

[rolltidefan]

agapewolf and kage_ar…I do appreciate you both explaining this. The way you explained it is how I understood it though. The reason I understand it, is because I am in such marriage that you, as Catholics consider not valid. Of course I see it differently obviously. A vow is a vow to me. No matter what or where I said it. I could have been standing on the toilet and it would have been a vow. I do understand where you both are speaking though for a Catholic marriage to be valid, so I do understand that. I guess the thing is, not all follow these laws of the Catholic Church. Of course not all Catholics do. I mean of course you all here will think it is awful but these were discussed with my husband before I married. I was married before and my marriage failed because of an affair on his part. In the years following my divorce, I found out a lot more than I had not known and felt as though I was in a complete lie of a marriage. Now that was not my fault. When I married him, yes I meant it to be for life, but apparently he didn’t see it that way. So, I had studied a little on Catholic marriages and found out alot that of course was not going along with what I believed. So, I told my future husband, no I would not get an annulement. Of course my husband never asked me to do this. I just read it and told him flat out no. I also would have never agreed to say yes, any children I agree would be raised Catholic, because that is not something I would or could make a promise to do and hold up to it. These were things I told him that I could not do. Now, he then had to make a decision what he wanted to do. I never asked him to compromise on what he believed. That was a choice he made on his own. He had the same option that I had…either saying yes or no. I stood up for what I believed in. I mean I am glad he did, because I guess we would not be together now if he hadn’t and I couldn’t imagine my life without him. It is funny how one of the worst situations in my life, which was my first home was destroyed, could then turn into one of the best things that happened to me. God meant for plan A in my life to be the one that worked but that fell through because of sin…I am not on plan B and there is no doubt that God blesses those broken roads and there is no doubt in my mind that God blesses what we see as failures. Anyway, just my thoughts. I know neither or most on here will agree but we all have a story. And of course I know where all of the Catholics here think my marriage lies. I do think it is admirable that you stand by your faith so strong. I do appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut.

We all have rules that we have to go by. Even in the United States there are laws to get married that you have to do, such as obtaining a license and etc.

 

[agapewolf]

agapewolf and kage_ar…I do appreciate you both explaining this. The way you explained it is how I understood it though. The reason I understand it, is because I am in such marriage that you, as Catholics consider not valid. Of course I see it differently obviously. A vow is a vow to me. No matter what or where I said it. I could have been standing on the toilet and it would have been a vow. I do understand where you both are speaking though for a Catholic marriage to be valid, so I do understand that. I guess the thing is, not all follow these laws of the Catholic Church. Of course not all Catholics do. I mean of course you all here will think it is awful but these were discussed with my husband before I married. I was married before and my marriage failed because of an affair on his part. In the years following my divorce, I found out a lot more than I had not known and felt as though I was in a complete lie of a marriage. Now that was not my fault. When I married him, yes I meant it to be for life, but apparently he didn’t see it that way. So, I had studied a little on Catholic marriages and found out alot that of course was not going along with what I believed. So, I told my future husband, no I would not get an annulement. Of course my husband never asked me to do this. I just read it and told him flat out no. I also would have never agreed to say yes, any children I agree would be raised Catholic, because that is not something I would or could make a promise to do and hold up to it. These were things I told him that I could not do. Now, he then had to make a decision what he wanted to do. I never asked him to compromise on what he believed. That was a choice he made on his own. He had the same option that I had…either saying yes or no. I stood up for what I believed in. I mean I am glad he did, because I guess we would not be together now if he hadn’t and I couldn’t imagine my life without him. It is funny how one of the worst situations in my life, which was my first home was destroyed, could then turn into one of the best things that happened to me. God meant for plan A in my life to be the one that worked but that fell through because of sin…I am not on plan B and there is no doubt that God blesses those broken roads and there is no doubt in my mind that God blesses what we see as failures. Anyway, just my thoughts. I know neither or most on here will agree but we all have a story. And of course I know where all of the Catholics here think my marriage lies. I do think it is admirable that you stand by your faith so strong. I do appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut.

We all have rules that we have to go by. Even in the United States there are laws to get married that you have to do, such as obtaining a license and etc.

Unfortunately, your “marriage” situation is keeping your husband from the sacraments. Which means he chose this situation over God. I find that sad. I’ll pray that you can see that this is keeping him (and you) from the infinite grace that God provides through the sacraments and perhaps see that the church is not that bad, but actually a vessel that provides grace.

 

[rolltidefan]

Unfortunately, your “marriage” situation is keeping your husband from the sacraments. Which means he chose this situation over God. I find that sad. I’ll pray that you can see that this is keeping him (and you) from the infinite grace that God provides through the sacraments and perhaps see that the church is not that bad, but actually a vessel that provides grace.

I understand you believe what you believe. I respect that. Obviously, I disagree but still respect your stance. I don’t see it as keeping him from God. It is keeping him from participating in the Catholic church and what they believe. He goes to church and still worships. He goes with me. Again, let me clarify, not because I ask him. I am in the infinite graces of God. And I would like to clarify also, I have never seen the Catholic church as bad nor have I ever said such. I just don’t agree with some of the teachings and therefore I worship God in the way I feel is the right way and the right church which is where I am going now. If at any point my husband feels that he needs to get back into the good graces with the Catholic church, I guess we will cross that road then. But it is not for me to decide that for him. Nor is it on me to lead him back to the “One True Church”. I stayed where I believe the truth is. I am not the one that ever swayed on what I believe. Again, don’t take that as being disrespectful. I am just telling you what I believe but also respecting what you are saying.

 

[grandiosa]

mabelbl,

If you got married again without addressing the issues that led to your first marriage being a mistake and falling apart… then you likely did make another mistake. People who are bad at picking spouses tend to have a repetitive pattern. So unless you thoroughly examined the reasons why, the things that drove you to choose unwisely, and came up with a strategy to avoid doing it again, then followed through in using it…

You probably did pick the wrong guy, again.

BTW, no one is “occasionally” racist. They are racist, but may only show it once in a while, when something sets them off. But inside their heart, that hate is always there. Do you want that around you and your kids? Why would you even consent to marry a person who had shown you racist attitudes and behavior in the first place?

Never mind how unhealthy he is in other ways…

 

[agapewolf]

I understand you believe what you believe. I respect that. Obviously, I disagree but still respect your stance. I don’t see it as keeping him from God. It is keeping him from participating in the Catholic church and what they believe. He goes to church and still worships. He goes with me. Again, let me clarify, not because I ask him. I am in the infinite graces of God. And I would like to clarify also, I have never seen the Catholic church as bad nor have I ever said such. I just don’t agree with some of the teachings and therefore I worship God in the way I feel is the right way and the right church which is where I am going now. If at any point my husband feels that he needs to get back into the good graces with the Catholic church, I guess we will cross that road then. But it is not for me to decide that for him. Nor is it on me to lead him back to the “One True Church”. I stayed where I believe the truth is. I am not the one that ever swayed on what I believe. Again, don’t take that as being disrespectful. I am just telling you what I believe but also respecting what you are saying.

There is so much relativism. What if you’re wrong? God is truth. There is only truth about him. He’s not many truths, or different truths.

I mean really, you keep saying the way “YOU FEEL” is right. What if you are wrong? How would you know?

My pastor asked a kid once near his old parish if he went to church. The kid said, just like you did in a way “no, I haven’t found one that agrees with my beliefs”. it’s not up to God to change to the way we want Him to.

You don’t determine what the truth is…maybe, Just MAYBE, the truth is something that might be hard to understand, it just might call us to pick up our crosses and sacrifice…just maybe that when there is a discrepency between the Church’s teachings our beliefs, just maybe, the church’s teachings that have stood for 2000 years unchanged are right and we are wrong.

 

[rolltidefan]

There is so much relativism. What if you’re wrong? God is truth. There is only truth about him. He’s not many truths, or different truths.

I mean really, you keep saying the way “YOU FEEL” is right. What if you are wrong? How would you know?

My pastor asked a kid once near his old parish if he went to church. The kid said, just like you did in a way “no, I haven’t found one that agrees with my beliefs”. it’s not up to God to change to the way we want Him to.

You don’t determine what the truth is…maybe, Just MAYBE, the truth is something that might be hard to understand, it just might call us to pick up our crosses and sacrifice…just maybe that when there is a discrepency between the Church’s teachings our beliefs, just maybe, the church’s teachings that have stood for 2000 years unchanged are right and we are wrong.

You are right…I could be wrong but you could also be wrong. That is right God is truth. I agree with you there. Okay, maybe I used the wrong wording. Not only do I feel that I am right…I know that I am right. I guess you could say I know that I know that I know deep inside within myself. That is all I know to tell you. You ask how would I know?? Well the answer is…I pray for God everyday to give me guidance and open my heart to what he wants and what his will is. I ask always for his truths to be revealed if I am wrong. I am very open, but at this point, I am where my heart is and where I know that I am supposed to be. Don’t know how to explain it, but if you are where you are supposed to be and you know to be the truth, then you should understand that you know that you know that you know! lol Gosh that was a mouth full. God doesn’t change…he is the same always and forever. I will tell you this though, I don’t think ANY church has the fullness of what God ever really intended. One reason why is this…we treat other people as Christians sometimes terrible and alot worse than anybody that doesn’t even have a belief…just because they don’t believe what we think they should. I am not talking about you here. I think we have had pretty good conversation. We had agreed to disagreed with respect. Not showing love and tolerance is not what God taught. He teaches love more than anything in the bible. Also, this type of intolerance that we have sometimes on this forum is no different than the racism that the OP is stating her husband has. Secondly, sometimes we are so self-rightous and judgemental that we cannot see even our faults because we are too busy poking in somebody elses eye to remove a gnat, while we are gagging on a camel. Again, not talking you, just generalizing about I don’t think anybody has the fullness. Thirdly, the reason we have so many demoniations is because GOD was left out. And I am not just talking about protestant churches. I have seen so much fighting here between traditionalist, to the regular, to the liberal, to the Charismatic movement. I don’t think the Catholic church of today is what was originally started. I don’t think any church was what God intended. We are the reason he was crucified and we are the reason every day he actually continues to be crucified. We are no better now than the Roman soldiers spitting in his face. Just my 2 cents. So I go by my heart and ask God to show me the way…not any church. I know you are going to say but the church is God…well again we will agree to disagree. BTW, if I ever was going to even nearly consider switching to Catholic, they better hope they get more of the Charismatic churches! I love them! Well, I am ducking now, I can see it flying now! lol Just kidding. I have enjoyed chatting with you.

 

[grandiosa]

Another point about getting the marriage “validated” without him knowing…

There is an option called “radical sanation” that can be used when the other spouse refuses to participate. However, as far as I know, it is used very rarely and usually the reasons have to be pretty serious. I doubt any priest would allow you to use that option, thus obligating you to a sacramental marriage that is binding for life, with the issues you have presented us. Never mind that a tribunal would probably at least have to go through the *pro forma *of examining your first marriage for nullity, and any previous marriages of his, before it could even be considered. Usually, even a regular convalidation requires the same kind of premarital counseling that would be required of a couple marrying in the Church in the normal way. And any priest who would convalidate without doing that counseling is being totally irresponsible. With what you have told us about your husband, I doubt he would go to the counseling or do anything productive with it if he did.

You need to stop thinking about whether this marriage is right for you, and start thinking about whether it is right for your children. Your first obligation is to them. You have no right to subject them to a toxic, unstable, or unhealthy environment in their home.

 

[agapewolf]

You are right…I could be wrong but you could also be wrong. That is right God is truth. I agree with you there. Okay, maybe I used the wrong wording. Not only do I feel that I am right…I know that I am right. I guess you could say I know that I know that I know deep inside within myself. That is all I know to tell you. You ask how would I know?? Well the answer is…I pray for God everyday to give me guidance and open my heart to what he wants and what his will is. I ask always for his truths to be revealed if I am wrong. I am very open, but at this point, I am where my heart is and where I know that I am supposed to be. Don’t know how to explain it, but if you are where you are supposed to be and you know to be the truth, then you should understand that you know that you know that you know! lol Gosh that was a mouth full. God doesn’t change…he is the same always and forever. I will tell you this though, I don’t think ANY church has the fullness of what God ever really intended. One reason why is this…we treat other people as Christians sometimes terrible and alot worse than anybody that doesn’t even have a belief…just because they don’t believe what we think they should. I am not talking about you here. I think we have had pretty good conversation. We had agreed to disagreed with respect. Not showing love and tolerance is not what God taught. He teaches love more than anything in the bible. Also, this type of intolerance that we have sometimes on this forum is no different than the racism that the OP is stating her husband has. Secondly, sometimes we are so self-rightous and judgemental that we cannot see even our faults because we are too busy poking in somebody elses eye to remove a gnat, while we are gagging on a camel. Again, not talking you, just generalizing about I don’t think anybody has the fullness. Thirdly, the reason we have so many demoniations is because GOD was left out. And I am not just talking about protestant churches. I have seen so much fighting here between traditionalist, to the regular, to the liberal, to the Charismatic movement. I don’t think the Catholic church of today is what was originally started. I don’t think any church was what God intended. We are the reason he was crucified and we are the reason every day he actually continues to be crucified. We are no better now than the Roman soldiers spitting in his face. Just my 2 cents. So I go by my heart and ask God to show me the way…not any church. I know you are going to say but the church is God…well again we will agree to disagree. BTW, if I ever was going to even nearly consider switching to Catholic, they better hope they get more of the Charismatic churches! I love them! Well, I am ducking now, I can see it flying now! lol Just kidding. I have enjoyed chatting with you.

Except that scripture says the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. He didnt’ promise no one would sin (even Peter did in Scripture), but he promised that the Church will stand.

And it has… unchanged.