NFP and Honeymoon

[Catholic_89]

New people to a Catholic forum shouldn’t call someone a loony for essentially repeating the text of the Chatechism.

This a CATHOLIC forum.

I agree. Although it may seem difficult to deal with, a marriage should be started with the intent of having children. I know it is difficult in today’s society, I myself will be going through this very soon, but I think one should get married ready to have children immediately. That is not to say that they want to have children immediately and try to, but essentially start off okay with the idea of a child. The apologists here agree with this idea

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=88417

I think there is a difference in starting a marriage not wanting a child now but later, and starting the marriage okay with having a child, but then because of unforseen circumstances are not able to , which is where NFP is justified.

Shouldn’t the circumstances be right when getting married to allow for a child? If they are not, then why are you getting married -after all, there is the possibility that a child would come along even with NFP, and then what? And if you can support a child, then why put it off?

Just my thoughts. I think this is a question of prudence, and a very personal question which ultimately the couple has to decide.

 

[Honus]

I’m glad the Catholic internet police have stepped in and determined the value of new posters opinions.

NFP to avoid pregnancy is sinful if there is not a serious reason for using it.

I’m quoting this again because it IS so far out in left field. By its very nature NFP is either being used to get pregnant or avoid pregnancy. I don’t think that everybody taking the NFP classes is doing so to get pregnant. I’m 99.99% sure that most people originally take it to learn how to avoid or space out pregnancies.

In a perfect world, people would be ready to start their families right away after the wedding. That is not realistic 100% of the time, and that is why the church endorses NFP.

 

[FrenchGwen]

I think there is a difference in starting a marriage not wanting a child now but later, and starting the marriage okay with having a child, but then because of unforseen circumstances are not able to , which is where NFP is justified.

Shouldn’t the circumstances be right when getting married to allow for a child? If they are not, then why are you getting married -after all, there is the possibility that a child would come along even with NFP, and then what? And if you can support a child, then why put it off?

well, I’ll take our own case : having a child right after our wedding would have (and still would) put us in a very, very difficult situation. We hardly make it financially now, I have no idea how we could have made it with a baby. Moreover the first months of our marriage (this was unforeseen ) were a bit… difficult, we did have a hard time adjusting, so we first wanted to focus on becoming better husband and wive before adressing the “becoming parents” chapter. That’s why we decided we would postpone for a while.
YET in the same time we knew God still has the power to send us a baby whenever He wants : NFP is great, but sometimes you’re not that sure about your symptoms, you’re tired… and you know you’ve just offered God a great opportunity to express His will and send a new little being; …
To me, being Catholic and discerning TTA / TTC matters means the following: He gave us a mind to discern whether or not we were in the right setting to start having children. If we decide so, we have to behave in a certain way (meaning: abstaining), yet even abstaining opens a possibility for Him to show he disagrees with our reasons. If He does, then I trust Him He will provide for us, either through changing our setting, or through showing us the setting was not that bad after all.

God does not ask us to put ourselves in impossible situations, He trusts we use our minds to keep ouf ot that. On the other hand, if He puts us in what seems to be an impossible situation, we have to trust the situation will not reveal itself so impossible…

Just my 2 cent.

 

[PaulinVA]

PaulinVA:
If a self identified ‘Catholics’ is using ABC, then Catholic they are not…they are dissenters and in essence, protestants, no better than Martin Luther.
This due to a failure of parents to practice and teach the faith and of priests to teach the faith for fear of being ‘unpastoral’.

I could pick a sin that you engage in, and declare that anyone who engages in that sin is not Catholic.

To what purpose did you make that post? These people are Catholic by virtue of their baptism. The goal is to have them repent, not cut them off.

 

[PaulinVA]

Quote:
NFP to avoid pregnancy is sinful if there is not a serious reason for using it.

This thread has really drawn out the hardcore loonies. To the OP, there has been some great advice on this thread, but ignore these people who are out in left field.

Actually, this is an area of agreement on this site. The discussions swirl around what a serious reason is. To say this is out in left field is wrong. It’s actually the teaching of the Church.

And, frankly, if you would like to participate in discussions here, dismissing the majority of posters as ‘loonies’ isn’t a good way to start.

 

[Zahmir]

Quote:
NFP to avoid pregnancy is sinful if there is not a serious reason for using it.

Actually, this is an area of agreement on this site. The discussions swirl around what a serious reason is. To say this is out in left field is wrong. It’s actually the teaching of the Church.

And, frankly, if you would like to participate in discussions here, dismissing the majority of posters as ‘loonies’ isn’t a good way to start.

The way this quote was said initially seemed to imply that the OP did not have serious reasons to use NFP to avoid. He seemed to imply that having sex on your wedding night was most important, so much so that choosing to avoid on your wedding night would be sinful.

This is not true.

My wife and I were in a similar situation. We chose to get married even though we knew that, at the outset, a baby would be very difficult to care for financially. Perhaps the baby would even be the cause of taking on some serious debts that would put us at the verge of poverty. If we had a baby, I would have been forced to put schooling on hold and take a job. I was willing to make these sacrifices because I was open to life.

Using NFP, however, and choosing to avoid, I am now going to law school on a full-tuition scholarship, and my future seems to be now more conducive to having a large family.

Why should anyone suggest either that I should force myself into a situation where a smaller family seems more responsible than having a large family or that I should have waited another five years to marry, years during which we would not be married or even have the possibility of having children?

 

[dsulpizio]

Footprints:
You have already shared with everyone the details surrounding why you are not open to life at the time that you will be married.

The date of the marriage should not be based on how long you all have already waited. It should be based on your ability to fulfill the obligations of marriage.

That you are using NFP to avoid pregnancy in order to pursue academic and professional goals makes you feel ‘orthodox’ and correct.

If you do not want to hear every angle of this discussion, than you are simply looking for affirmation of your own decision, which you will not get from those who know couples who are not ready to start a family should not be getting married.

 

[ac_claire]

I would appreciate if the tone of this thread would return to that which it started. I was not posting to start a debate on an already VERY orthodox decision to use nfp and NO FORM of birth control. I would appreciate if we did not get scrupulous on details whereas everyone posting does not know the details of my fiance’s and my relationship…

Otherwise, I’d love to hear what others have to say about their experiences etc. You have given my fiance and I a lot to talk about and I appreciate hearing of other couples that have approached similar situations. Thanks!

Hey Footprints. I’m one of the ones who participated in this thread getting off-course…Sorry if that derailed things too much frm your original point.

My advice is still the same from my first response. Since you yourself have expressed a certain amount of disappointment at not being able to enjoy eachother as husband and wife on your honeymoon, I think you should go for it. Enjoy eachother as husband and wife!

I have read all the details of why you have been considering abstaining, and I just want to say…from a* judgemental outsider*'s perspective…IMO you should go ahead and trust God in this. Some people I know are facing unimaginable obstacles, against strong odds, and would love to have their worst problems and impediments look like the ones you listed.

I’ll repeat this: there are no guarantees in this life. No time is going to be perfect. I have seen it happen before that once the specifications/goals you’ve listed are no longer an issue, new ones will pop up. And you’ll have already had all that time to enjoy eachother alone without the responsibility and noise and expense and mess of little ones underfoot…and you may just become attatched to that freedom. I only suggest this because I’ve seen it happen, so it’s something to think about.

 

[BiologyBrain]

Actually, this is an area of agreement on this site. The discussions swirl around what a serious reason is. To say this is out in left field is wrong. It’s actually the teaching of the Church.

And, frankly, if you would like to participate in discussions here, dismissing the majority of posters as ‘loonies’ isn’t a good way to start.

To imply that use of NFP is inherently wrong & that there are no valid reasons to abstain is what is ‘loony’ IMO. I didn’t make the original ‘loony’ comment, but I somewhat agree sometimes, although I’d use a different term. Not everyone is called to have children right away - physically, mentally, emotionally, financially, etc.

It does matter how long the OP and her fiance have waited up to this point before having relations. St. Paul indicates that if you’re in danger of having relations sinfully (ie in an unmarried state) you should get married so you can have moral relations. Quite possibly, putting off the wedding may strain the OP & her fiance more than they can take. Isn’t it better for them to be discussing the means to controlling their desires for one another within the sacrament of marriage than for them to sully their souls by having pre-marital relations?

Where does the bible &/or Catechism indicate that abstinence is wrong - for any reason - as long as it is consensual. Abstinence, for whatever reason, can be a time of spiritual growth. Discerning when to be abstinent, for the purpose of planning/spacing children, can lead the couple to deeper communication with God.

The OP also stated that while a baby would not be convenient, it would not be the end of the world either. While convenience is not necessarily a great reason for delaying children, it can play a part in the decision (the OP indicates that there would be financial and space issues as well, not to mention education issues). The key to the OP’s question IMO is that she & her fiance are planning on having children and they are open to children now, but would rather wait. I really don’t see the problem as long as the OP & her fiance are in agreement and have prayed over the decision. I do personally (and did in real life) think its best to enjoy your new spouse on your honeymoon. However, with proper discernment (conversation between spouses & God), NFP can (and should) be used to plan children IMO.

 

[Andrea22]

How sinful would it be to intentionally throw off your cycle so that you wouldn’t be fertile during your honey moon? I’m talking about naturally or artificially doing it a month or two before your wedding? This is something that people in the secular world would do but I’m not sure if this would be morally allowed within our faith.

 

[BiologyBrain]

How sinful would it be to intentionally throw off your cycle so that you wouldn’t be fertile during your honey moon? I’m talking about naturally or artificially doing it a month or two before your wedding? This is something that people in the secular world would do but I’m not sure if this would be morally allowed within our faith.

I think intentionally messing w/ a bodily function (like fertility) that’s not broken is contrary to Church teaching. I’d say AVOID that at all costs!