NFP vs condoms for creating love within marriage

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Mrc

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My introduction is like this: I’m Catholic, which means I subscribe to the Catholic rules. I understand the evil outcomes of condoms outside of marriage, and how they’re a means for things like sex outside marriage, and adultery in particular. After about 10 years of marriage, my wife and I have followed NFP successfully and have two children. This is our issue:
Our marriage started during phase 2, and we couldn’t have children at the time, so we had to abstain.
Every single holiday we’ve had has been in phase 2, with emphasis on weekends away with each other only in order to have time for ourselves.
For 70% of our marriage, one or both of us has been sick during phase 3.
We have struggled, and fought, since day one of our marriage because of issues relating to sex.
My wife has short phase 1’s and looong phase 2’s, leaving only about a week and a half per cycle of days where we don’t have to abstain. And yes, we have to abstain on fertile days because our economic situation is really difficult.
During phase 3 when neither of us are sick, and we’re both awake enough, my wife has no interest in me physically. I feel rejected, my wife feels bad, and we argue every time. Every single time. We both don’t feel like it in phase 3, and it has basically been a chore to have sex.
During phase 2, when we’re almost never sick, have our holidays together, have more time, and because they’re almost 3 weeks long, we both feel physically attracted to each other, but deny each other our sexual love.
So it’s basically abstain during phase 2, and fight about sex in phase 3. After fighting for almost all phase 3 about it, we’re both not really up to it for phase 1. Loving, hey? Life giving, hey?
When it’s phase 3, we feel like we have to use the opportunity as well, so there’s no spontaneity. And believe me, after 10 years, I know you can’t create spontaneity in phase 3.
How is abstaining during phase 2 different in preventing pregnancy than using condoms? In fact, since condoms aren’t 100% “effective”, you’re more likely to conceive when using one in phase 2 than you are abstaining. I’m open to God’s will. If God wants me to bring another child into the world, a bit of rubber isn’t going to stop Him. And if it happens in phase 2 if I use a condom, then it’s God’s will, and I’ll find joy in that. It’s an all or nothing situation (but I argue that condoms don’t hold anything back).
I don’t think the same argument can be made for any other contraceptive. As I’ve said, I understand that sex is not 100% giving when using a condom, according to the church, but in my marriage, a good sexual relationship with my wife would have really been fruitful to our marriage in terms of our total love. Now we have to live without physical love.
 
Using a condom would allow us to use that time during phase 2 when we have sexual attraction to love each other physically. This as opposed to constant fighting every time we talk about sex, feeling utterly rejected on my part, feeling guilty and like something is wrong with her on my wife’s part (I mean, she’s gone to sex therapy, when in fact it’s just because it’s phase 3). We both understand each other, and I do give my understanding all the time, but there’s a lot of frustration for both of us.
It honestly feels like we’ve wasted 10 years of phase 2’s, and like we’ve had no physical attraction to each other since we got married, but the penny dropped recently for both of us at the same time, because we both came to the realisation that the problem isn’t us, it’s NFP. NFP has caused us much grief and bitterness. It doesn’t ring true to God’s nature. It doesn’t ring true to Catholicism. It doesn’t follow love, the greatest commandment. God intended sex to be sensual and fruitful, not robotic and obligatory.
Using a condom appears to be more loving, more fruitful, more natural. At least I’d be able to let my wife enjoy sex if I did use one. Husbands, you know how important this is!

This, coming from me, who has advocated NFP fervently. I have prayed for many years about it, and I have taught NFP to friends who were planning their weddings.
 
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One has to be totally open to life. Using a condom or onanism is saying I love you but not enough to give you all of myself. It’s not leaving God to create life. It’s contraceptive. NFP is still giving totally of oneself and being open to life. Condoms are intrinsically evil and gravely immoral, in or out of marriage, for the husband or for the passive use of the wife.
 
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I hope you are not teaching people that condoms are permissable.

I think your problem is trust in God. Most people have enough means for another child but want more things. I understand it can be difficult financially but maybe there is a way for you to have more children. We must also trust in God’s Providence especially when he understands that we want to be generous with children.
 
Why would I teach something against the church? No. I have to follow what the Pope says.

Let me highlight this: 10 years of NFP. Is trusting God blindly following a vague teaching, or should I ask the questions?

And I should enjoy one phase 2 with my wife at the cost of another child? If I had to list what my wife’s been through after two pregnancies, you’d think I’m quoting a horror movie. She’s also 43. No, I’m not talking about one phase 2, I’m talking about a marriage filled with all the aspects of love. Aren’t I withholding more if I’m withholding 100% of physical love? Then you also need to ask: are you withholding anything if you use a condom? I can still be open to life and use a condom. It’s not a means to an end, it’s a means for us to increase our love. Trust me, my wife and I don’t want to have sex to have orgasms; we want to so that we can love each other and celebrate our marriage sacrament.
 
Bear in mind that the 40’s is often the time of natural discontent and restlessness so that may be bearing on your perception of what is causing problems. From someone who’s been through all that phase, pray and persist and you’ll get over the hump. Then there is menopause and a new and less anxious phase of a marriage to look forward to.
 
Condoms are intrinsically evil so no intention or circumstances can one use a condom even if it be for mutual love.
Mrc said:
Aren’t I withholding more if I’m withholding 100% of physical love?
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No, you would be sinning and putting your soul in hell, nothing is worth that, not even close union with ones wife. Nothing comes above God.
 
Over the history of mankind, having children meant that when a parent got older and unable, they had adult children to live with. Many children, though born into the world, through illness did not live to see 18.

Today with the pill available and sterilization, it seems to take heroic virtue to have a third child. To have a fourth seems to attract ridicule. To follow the teaching of the church takes a firm resolve and I wanted to thank you for the struggle you’ve had in your 10 years. I believe as we offer our struggles in union with Christ for the salvation of the world and to repair for our own faults, we are a force for good. This world is desperate for the light of Christ. I guess I wanted to remind you that your struggle is not in vain, that God sees it all, and uses it for the good of the world.
 
A wonderful response and spot on. Persevering in living the obedient life, especially when it is so hard and difficult to see a point… eventually grants us the grace to recognise meaning and purpose in our struggles.
 
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I’m mid 30s. We’ve done this for 10 years (unnecessary strife). Condoms are not evil, it’s what you do with them.

Anyway, it seems a complete waste of love to withhold myself from my wife. And it just doesn’t seem to fit the message Jesus came to teach.

Like I said, I must listen to the Pope, but it doesn’t mean I can’t ask the questions. I’ve prayed and researched the topic of contraception for most of my life, and yes, I agree and can connect the dots, except for condoms. Scripture just doesn’t fit. After 10 years’ experience and research, I just can’t reconcile this teaching.

It’s like the theology on drugs. Where does the church draw the line? Coffee? Alcohol? Cigarettes?

The view that “use a condom and you’re going to burn in hell” is very much not a Catholic attitude. That’s not how Jesus approached His teaching. It’s not the faith I belong to. I would love to debate the topic for a resolution, but there has to be a scriptural and theological reference to put it to rest.

I find NFP something that can be very closed to life and it can and has caused a rift which Jesus taught against.
 
Mrc said:
I’m Catholic, which means I subscribe to the Catholic rules.
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They aren’t rules. The teaching regarding contraception is part of the moral law of God,
The Sixth Commandment.
Mrc said:
How is abstaining during phase 2 different in preventing pregnancy than using condoms?
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Abstaining from the act and engaging in a disordered act are entirely different.

Contraception disorders the act.
Mrc said:
In fact, since condoms aren’t 100% “effective”
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Effectiveness has ZERO to do with the immorality of contraception.

Abstaining is the only moral means of avoiding pregnancy. NFP is information that gives you more days of intimacy than you would have without it.
 
Mrc said:
I can still be open to life and use a condom.
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But that is not what the Church teaching regarding contraception is. There is no vague “open to life” teaching.

The Church teaches that EACH ACT of intercourse must be properly ordered— ordered to both unity and procreation.
 
Yes, I know what the church teaches.

NFP is contraception, and there’s no way around that, and that’s 100% my experience of it, and it has prevented love in my marriage. There is no such thing as an “ordered act” in my marriage, and there never has been. It’s a chore because of everything mentioned above. Marriage is meant to reflect the Trinity, and forcing intimacy during phase 3 has become a thing of “relief” for me, and stress for my wife, no matter what I do or try. Phase 2 is different - there’s plenty of physical attraction, and it’s a loving attraction. But we’re not allowed to celebrate that aspect of our love.

Our longest phase 3’s are 10 days anyway. And there’s almost always something in the way - sickness, for example. On average, phase 3 is 7 - 8 days. I have hundreds of charts to prove it, and many have been reviewed.

I’m struggling to reconcile scripture and how using a condom is a “disordered act”. This is my point - I know what the church teaches, but my evidence tells me that the church ring-fences contraception, and tries to exclude NFP by calling it something else. I agree with the church’s teaching on all contraception, except NFP, but call it what it is. That said, my evidence (which isn’t a little bit) shows that condoms fall into the same category as NFP. The church also teaches us to live responsibly and to live life to the full - to experience love to the full.

Like I said, where does the church draw the line in its theology on drugs? Some are ok, but some aren’t. Why? There’s a reason behind the teaching, and that reason draws the line. I believe that contraception that isn’t a condom or NFP is disordered because they alter the body.
 
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Mrc said:
NFP is contraception, and there’s no way around that,
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No, it isn’t. NFP is information.

Abstaining and contraception are both means of birth control, the spacing of children. The Church doesn’t teach that it is wrong to do this.

Abstaining is a moral means of birth control.

Contraception is an immoral means of birth control.

Edited: oops fingers didn’t type what brain dictated:
The ends can never justify the means.
 
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contraception

noun
  1. the deliberate use of artificial methods or other techniques to prevent pregnancy as a consequence of sexual intercourse.
Call it what it is. The information obtained by charting allows a couple to have intercourse without pregnancy as a consequence; it enables a couple to prevent pregnancy. This is NFP.

Here’s something to think about:
  1. A man has an affair. He did this easier because he had access to condoms.
  2. A man has an affair. He did this easier because the woman had knowledge of her cycles.
 
Mrc, how come you’re not working harder on trying to find some way to communicate better with your wife so you’re not arguing about the same thing for days out of every month, rather than just deciding that committing a grave sin must be the answer? If an argument with my husband was happening every month for 3 months, I’d be working on the communications problem, not continuing to argue every month for 10 years and then deciding to use artificial contraception rather than fix the communications problem. It sounds like you have this big gaping wound and are trying to fix it by sticking a band-aid on it.
 
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Mrc said:
as a consequence of sexual intercourse.
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When you abstain there is no intercourse.

Therein lies the difference.

Contraception attempts to thwart the “consequence of sexual intercourse”.
 
Mrc said:
in my marriage, a good sexual relationship with my wife would have really been fruitful to our marriage in terms of our total love. Now we have to live without physical love.
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Mrc, what I hear you communicating is that you are experiencing suffering (rather than joy) in your most intimate relationship.
You are angry because your painful situation seems irrational; in fact there are seemingly simple ways to end the pain.
And there’s resentment because you’ve spent so long obeying Church teachings, without receiving the blessing you want.

O, honey! You ain’t alone! (Que the ‘amen!’)

Sexuality is the reason for how much suffering in how many marriages? You just have a certain type.

Rather than focusing on the condom issue, what if you refocused on joining your suffering to Christ’s, or to any number of Saints who endured marital pain?
Ask yourself, how exactly did Mother Theresa endure decades of the dark night of the soul? Is it possible joy can be found in spite of pain?

This is Catholicism’s most powerful witness, IMO, and why I just became a Catholic after 20 years of fruitlessly chasing happiness in the Protestant world.

Over in the Protestant world, I listened to perfectly lovely pastor’s wives glowingly reporting on the effectiveness of their IUD’s or sterilizations. So grateful they didn’t have to worry about pregnancy, and focus more on ministry. Because isn’t it true that Jesus wants to deliver us from suffering?
In fact, nothing should stop having as much/any kind of sex with your spouse…It’s the most important way a wife ministers to her husband’s needs…And if having children seems like it will ruin your bliss, don’t have any… so their reasoning goes.

Last thought: your wife’s fertility will plunge at age 44. Your carefree sex life could easily be ahead of you.
Imagine your future testimony to the people God has put around you: years of pain and struggle to be faithful to the Church’s teachings…and years of blissful lovemaking. No bitterness, no compromise.
 
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