Nfp

[yinekka]

Last night I was talking with three Faithful Catholic women who, among them, have 19 living children and 5 with God .They all use the Billings Method of NFP and don’t find it very effective in monitoring ovulation. These women talked of the stress both emotional and financial which having more children would mean to them but find that the Billings Method is just not accurate enough for them to ever enjoy sexual intercourse. At least three of the 19 children were conceived when the women thought they were infertile.

These women are Faithful to the Magisterium and they find it difficult. How can we preach NFP to lukewarm Catholics if it simply isn’t reliable?

Does anyone know of a monitor out there which is reliable?

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

yinekka:

These women are Faithful to the Magisterium and they find it difficult. How can we preach NFP to lukewarm Catholics if it simply isn’t reliable?

NFP is not a generic, one-size-fits-all method.

There are different methods and women find them more or less effective depending on their personal circumstances. It is something that takes much more commitment than popping a pill once a day (and some women can’t even seem to get that right, lol).

Also, how NFP is learned and practiced makes a big difference as well. If you are taught well, and practice your chosen method properly, then it should be somewhere around 97 to 99% effective.

I have been using the sympto-thermal method for over a year now. I have serious reasons to avoid a pregnancy at this time and I trust this method. I know there are plenty of other women on these forums who use it successfully (either to postpone or achieve pregnancy).

The key, I believe, is education. The more we get the word out that NFP is a reliable choice the more people will use it and prove it.

Malia

 

[Sorbetto]

What is the best way to go about finding out which method is the best for you? I suppose you begin with classes and reading? If anyone knows of any sites or books, it would be greatly appreciated, for me, at least.

I haven’t done enough reading on it to realize it was that particular, so this has been informative.

 

[leaner]

start by calling around to your local catholic hospitals for one – you can have face-to-face lessons (which in our case, were wonderful) or www.ccli.org to find instructors near you…there’s a plethora of info out there if you look - -just google “natural family planning” or “fertility awareness” and you’ll be swamped! It’s not nearly as hard once you’ve done it for a few months, and a few months fly by quicker than you’d imagine. I rarely even use half the gadgets anymore, it’s become such second nature to me. It’s also been a wonderful communication encourager for me and DH as a team.

 

[gardenswithkids]

yinekka:

How can we preach NFP to lukewarm Catholics if it simply isn’t reliable?

I don’t think we should “preach NFP”. What we should preach is that children are blessings from God, not something to be intentionally prevented without good reason. (The Church, in her wisdom, offers identifying a woman’s fertile time as a licit way for couples to either prevent or attempt pregnancy. I understand that there are very valid reasons to avoid pregnancy, and I do not wish to judge anyone by what I am going to write next.)

Even lukewarm Catholics recognize that children are blessings, but taking it that extra step and encouraging people to have more children is something that’s rarely preached. The women you describe would probably not find raising their large families quite so difficult if the rest of the culture, (including many Catholics), didn’t frown upon them as some sort of oddity.

Personally, I grow increasingly offended by those who “preach NFP”. It almost seems as if large families are only created by those too stupid to practice some form of birth control, rather than being created by a loving God who bestows the blessings of children. Many lukewarm contraceptive users see NFP as a less reliable means of birth control which requires greater sacrifice, and therefore justify their use of contraception instead of recognizing they are saying “NO” to God’s gift of children.

I hope I didn’t offend anyone, but it seems that “preaching NFP”; often accepts the premise that children shouldn’t be desired in excess numbers of one, two or maybe three. Preaching that children are blessings instead of something to be avoided might be a more effective way to reach the lukewarm Catholics because it addresses a truth they already know in their hearts.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

The Marquette method uses an ovulation monitor in conjunction with either mucus (e.g. Billings or Creighton) or BBT fluctiation (the T of STM) to p(name removed by moderator)oint ovulation.

marquette.edu/nursing/nfp/index.html

Frankly though, it sounds like the friends of the OP could use a refresher course based on any of the common methods (either STM or mucus-based, like: Billings, Creighton, STM, CCLI, Northwest Family Planning,… who am I leaving out? ) to get confident with the rules again.

 

[Michelle_in_KC]

Honestly, I think the reason my husband and I enjoy using our method is because of the context in which it was taught. We learned the STM from Couple to Couple league and the course goes into Church teaching on marriage and family and actually preaches the children are blessings angle. It was through the suggeted reading in “The Art of Natural Family Planning” that my husband began studying JPII’s Theology of the Body and reading things like Humanae Vitae among other things. If I had the time, I’d study them, too…for now, I count on him to help me out, if necessary!

I can’t speak to other methods since I never learned any other, but I agree that it’s more important to “preach NFP” in terms of being open and accepting of God’s Will for your family and not just limiting the size of your family.

 

[faithful2005]

I can’t add too much except I always figured the times NFP failed, it was God’s will shining through. I may not understand His will, or like it, but I accept it and rely on Him to help me (emotionally, financially, etc). May God reward your generous friends and be there for them always.

 

[johnnyjoe]

yinekka:

Last night I was talking with three Faithful Catholic women who, among them, have 19 living children and 5 with God .They all use the Billings Method of NFP and don’t find it very effective in monitoring ovulation. These women talked of the stress both emotional and financial which having more children would mean to them but find that the Billings Method is just not accurate enough for them to ever enjoy sexual intercourse. At least three of the 19 children were conceived when the women thought they were infertile.

These women are Faithful to the Magisterium and they find it difficult. How can we preach NFP to lukewarm Catholics if it simply isn’t reliable?

Does anyone know of a monitor out there which is reliable?

One of the difficulties with talking about NFP is that it is often a hidden language for talking about marriage and sex issues in general. Sometimes couples simply resent not being able to have the “freedom” to “enjoy sex” like they think every on else is. NFP will always be “difficult” because marriage in this culture is always “difficult”.

Now having a large family has stresses that easily flow over into the bedroom, if you will, but the heart of the problem is not the practice of NFP, but the attitude of resentment that sometimes comes from spouses who have to deal with the stress and “busy-ness” of having a large family.

I think we always have to “preach NFP” as an integration of our sex lives into our married lives - regardless of family size. This culture likes to consider sex as that fun recreational thing a married couple gets to do with “wild abandon”. The reality of married life is that the best fore play a husband may be able to offer his wife is to clean the kitchen after dinner so she can sit in a soft chair for a bit. There are embraces and conversations we can share during the “fertile” time that are just as meaningful as intercourse, if we make the effort to focus on the person for the gift they are, and not what they offer me.

I have some friends who first told us about NFP, and she had to have a radical hysterectomy. Her biggest fear was that it would change the “courtship” they experienced and enjoyed in Phase II - so her husband gave her a laminated card after her surgery that allowed her to be “in Phase II” whenever she thought she needed it. It was a very tender jesture that focused on the person, and not the sex.

What I think these women may lack is an experience of courtship when they most desire marital relations - thier fertile time. I lay that problem on the feet of thier husbands.

 

[gardenswithkids]

faithful2005:

…I always figured the times NFP failed, it was God’s will shining through. I may not understand His will, or like it, but I accept it and rely on Him to help me (emotionally, financially, etc). May God reward your generous friends…

Well put! Unexpected pregnancy with NFP may be exactly God way of rewarding those who are trying to comply with His will and the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Sons are indeed a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward. Psalm 127:3

 

[DJgang]

Ray_Scheel:

The Marquette method uses an ovulation monitor in conjunction with either mucus (e.g. Billings or Creighton) or BBT fluctiation (the T of STM) to p(name removed by moderator)oint ovulation.

marquette.edu/nursing/nfp/index.html

Frankly though, it sounds like the friends of the OP could use a refresher course based on any of the common methods (either STM or mucus-based, like: Billings, Creighton, STM, CCLI, Northwest Family Planning,… who am I leaving out? ) to get confident with the rules again.

Okay Ray, so I checked out this website - it says that Marquette method is good for breastfeeding moms…so…I looked and looked to find maybe a book they sell, etc. so that I can educate myself, but I found nothing on the site. Is the method something only taught at this facility or what? Can you fill me in…I am trying to check out NFP and methods…Thanks.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

DJgang:

Okay Ray, so I checked out this website - it says that Marquette method is good for breastfeeding moms…so…I looked and looked to find maybe a book they sell, etc. so that I can educate myself, but I found nothing on the site. Is the method something only taught at this facility or what? Can you fill me in…I am trying to check out NFP and methods…Thanks.

Aside from knowing that it uses some sort of ovulation prediction monitor in addition to other symptoms, I don’t know much about it. It is most likely still just starting to get established as far as having teachers available in other localities, though I know there are folks taking the online course on how to be a teacher of that method, so its starting to be available in other areas too. You might have to contact them to see if they know of any teachers within a reasonable drive of where you are.

 

[manualman]

We use the Billings method and found the literature to be lacking a bit in discussing other health issues that may alter the characteristics of the cervical mucus.

My wife stongly believes that cold medicines and antihistamines can mask the onset of fertile mucus.

But then, I understand that the STM temperature criteria assumes a LOT of sleep that often is not the case too!

So far, the Billing’s method with occasional fall-back on Rythm when allergies or colds act up have worked flawlessly. But then, it wouldn’t really be THAT tragic for us if we had an ‘oops!’ I’d be more concerned if there were medical issues in the way of another pregnancy.

 

[leaner]

manualman:

We use the Billings method and found the literature to be lacking a bit in discussing other health issues that may alter the characteristics of the cervical mucus.

My wife stongly believes that cold medicines and antihistamines can mask the onset of fertile mucus.

But then, I understand that the STM temperature criteria assumes a LOT of sleep that often is not the case too!

So far, the Billing’s method with occasional fall-back on Rythm when allergies or colds act up have worked flawlessly. But then, it wouldn’t really be THAT tragic for us if we had an ‘oops!’ I’d be more concerned if there were medical issues in the way of another pregnancy.

Yes, it’s true that decongestants can dry up the cervical mucous as well as the other more bothersome kind! LOL. For me, when I’m sick, “relations” aren’t an option…I get knocked on my rear by my colds – complete zombie. Just as you can take guifenasin (plain robitussin, or “Tussin” medicine) to increase your cervical mucous (try it, it works like a charm!) you can decrease it with medications too – also, pseudophed has been linked to a marked decrease in breastmilk production, so lactating women should avoid it if possible too, or at least counter it with tons of water and possibly some fenugreek…

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

manualman:

But then, I understand that the STM temperature criteria assumes a LOT of sleep that often is not the case too!

That was one of my main concerns when I finally decided to try NFP. I have a sleep disorder and I was worried that my temps would not be able to be used in the sympto thermal method. Since I have a serious medical reason for wanting to postpone conception, this made me really anxious.

But now, after more than a year using the STM of NFP I am totally comfortable with it. I was suprised that I get accurate temp readings, even on nights where I probably have less sleep than a new mom, lol.

I think all women are different and what works for one may not work for another.

Malia

 

[Michelle_in_KC]

Ray_Scheel:

Aside from knowing that it uses some sort of ovulation prediction monitor in addition to other symptoms, I don’t know much about it. It is most likely still just starting to get established as far as having teachers available in other localities, though I know there are folks taking the online course on how to be a teacher of that method, so its starting to be available in other areas too. You might have to contact them to see if they know of any teachers within a reasonable drive of where you are.

My sister lives in Milwaukee and her doctor encourages this method. She and her husband live on pretty meager means, though, and she didn’t want to spend the large $$ amount on the monitor, so they spent a smaller sum on the home study kit from CCL and learned sympto-thermal method.

I believe the monitor was somewhere in the range of $300-400 if I remember what she told me correctly. I do think it’s a rather new method that really focuses on the woman “taking charge” of her fertility. Or at least that is how my sister put it to me. I believe it relies heavily on mucous observations and the ovulation predictor monitor.

That’s all I know about it…which admittedly, is not very much.

 

[MooCowSteph]

faithful2005:

I can’t add too much except I always figured the times NFP failed, it was God’s will shining through. I may not understand His will, or like it, but I accept it and rely on Him to help me (emotionally, financially, etc). May God reward your generous friends and be there for them always.

Well said.