No change is possible without consciousness

[Bahman]

1. Form is an actual representation of something
2. Form is actual hence changeless
3. Change is the deformation of form, namely from former form to later form
4. This requires annihilation of former form and creation of later form since form is actual
5. The knowledge of former form is required upon its annihilation for creation of later form
6. This knowledge has to have the power to brings actuality so called consciousness

 

[Nihilist]

1. Form is an actual representation of something
2. Form is actual hence changeless
3. Change is the deformation of form, namely from former form to later form
4. This requires annihilation of former form and creation of later form since form is actual
5. The knowledge of former form is required upon its annihilation for creation of later form
6. This knowledge has to have the power to brings actuality so called consciousness

1. Form is actual, and hence changeless
2. Therefore form does not change
3. That which is subject to change is not form, but in potentiality, rather than actuality.
4. Change is the dialogue between the potential and the actual.
5. Therefore ‘beings come into form’, rather than ‘forms coming into being.’

 

[GEddie]

Of course things change all the time without conscious intervention.

Just observe the physical world, or even your natural body!

ICXC NIKA

 

[Bahman]

1)Form is actual, and hence changeless
2) Therefore form does not change
3) That which is subject to change is not form, but in potentiality, rather than actuality.
4) Change is the dialogue between the potential and the actual.
5) Therefore ‘beings come into form’, rather than ‘forms coming into being
.’

Potentiality is in consciousness.

 

[Bahman]

Of course things change all the time without conscious intervention.

Just observe the physical world, or even your natural body!

ICXC NIKA

First, could you please tell me what is wrong with my argument. Second, any change in our natural body is subjected to existence of consciousness. Third, we have been wrong in judging many things in the past, why not include that physical world is conscious as well.

 

[Beryllos]

1. Form is an actual representation of something
2. Form is actual hence changeless
3. Change is the deformation of form, namely from former form to later form
4. This requires annihilation of former form and creation of later form since form is actual
5. The knowledge of former form is required upon its annihilation for creation of later form
6. This knowledge has to have the power to brings actuality so called consciousness

Item #1. Form exists without regard to representation. Representation is our appreciation of form.

Item #2. I think you are using a definition of form which is unnecessarily restricted (and unnatural). What if form includes change? A simple example would be planets which move in their orbits, while obeying changeless laws.

Item #4 is also problematic. In the view of classical physics, gradual change is not obtained by annihilation and creation, but by continuous variation. A planet in its orbit is not annihilated and created in every instant. Rather the operation of a force adds to the existing velocity of the planet, the velocity adds to the existing position of the planet, and the existing planet continues to exist as it yields to change.

I understand Item #5 as laws of motion, or more generally, laws of nature.

Item #6 could be understood as the knowledge of the One who created the laws of nature.

 

[Bahman]

Item #1. Form exists without regard to representation. Representation is our appreciation of form.

Item #2. I think you are using a definition of form which is unnecessarily restricted (and unnatural). What if form includes change? A simple example would be planets which move in their orbits, while obeying changeless laws.

What is at rest stays at rest unless it is influenced.

Item #4 is also problematic. In the view of classical physics, gradual change is not obtained by annihilation and creation, but by continuous variation. A planet in its orbit is not annihilated and created in every instant. Rather the operation of a force adds to the existing velocity of the planet, the velocity adds to the existing position of the planet, and the existing planet continues to exist as it yields to change.

Not true if we accept (2).

I understand Item #5 as laws of motion, or more generally, laws of nature.

Item #6 could be understood as the knowledge of the One who created the laws of nature.

Minimally it says that consciousness is needed for any change.