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Noah and the Flood - What about the Babies? (Pro-Abortion Argument)
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repo_man
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there’s a glaring difference here. we are not to play god.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
I think people are confusing ‘original sin’ and ‘personal sin’.
Babies are born without ‘personal sin’. Those who are mentally handicapped can also live their lives without ‘personal sin’ if they lack sufficient ‘reason’ to understand that an action can be sinful.
But all of us are born with ‘original’ sin. While the ‘original sin’ of Adam and Eve was ‘paid’ by Jesus on the cross, the ‘effects’ of it linger in each and every one of us in that lacking baptism (water, blood, or desire) we still have a ‘stain’ on the soul until we are baptized.
However, we are NEITHER: inherently good as one poster put it, NOR are we: Born dead to God and depraved.
The one is humanism, the other Calvinism.
We are born in God’s image and likeness which is good, but ‘stained’ through the sin of our first parents with the predisposition to evil. Though not guilty of ‘personal sin’ at birth, lacking God we WILL be predisposed all our lives to sin (concupiscence). Because Christ redeemed us and He is the way, the truth, and the life, in the NORMAL experience of life on earth our ‘way’ to Him is marked by the sacraments which will help us and especially by baptism which ‘cleanses’ us from original sin, and later by confession which ‘cleanses’ us from our later, personal sins.
There are, have been, and will be those who will not be baptized in Christ. Because they remain with original sin they will have a much HARDER time being saved, and in the end they will only wind up, if they ARE saved, by being saved through SOME type of baptism. . .usually that of blood or desire.
It is only through Christ and His Church that we will be saved.
Babies are born without ‘personal sin’. Those who are mentally handicapped can also live their lives without ‘personal sin’ if they lack sufficient ‘reason’ to understand that an action can be sinful.
But all of us are born with ‘original’ sin. While the ‘original sin’ of Adam and Eve was ‘paid’ by Jesus on the cross, the ‘effects’ of it linger in each and every one of us in that lacking baptism (water, blood, or desire) we still have a ‘stain’ on the soul until we are baptized.
However, we are NEITHER: inherently good as one poster put it, NOR are we: Born dead to God and depraved.
The one is humanism, the other Calvinism.
We are born in God’s image and likeness which is good, but ‘stained’ through the sin of our first parents with the predisposition to evil. Though not guilty of ‘personal sin’ at birth, lacking God we WILL be predisposed all our lives to sin (concupiscence). Because Christ redeemed us and He is the way, the truth, and the life, in the NORMAL experience of life on earth our ‘way’ to Him is marked by the sacraments which will help us and especially by baptism which ‘cleanses’ us from original sin, and later by confession which ‘cleanses’ us from our later, personal sins.
There are, have been, and will be those who will not be baptized in Christ. Because they remain with original sin they will have a much HARDER time being saved, and in the end they will only wind up, if they ARE saved, by being saved through SOME type of baptism. . .usually that of blood or desire.
It is only through Christ and His Church that we will be saved.
A
Antithesis
Guest
Original sin is defined by the church in the Coucil of Trent as the death of the soul, or the absence of sanctifying grace. We as a race due to the actions of Adam have no life in us when we are born.
Jesus himself said unless you are baptised by water and spirit you have no life in you. He never stated any other cases or listed exceptions.
You can only “hope” in desire of baptism. Even though all the Church Fathers both Latin and Greek taught that babies were sentenced to hell if unbaptized. The only diffenrce was suffering or not and if we hold true to the latin fathers they will be suffering.
However children who are aborted do not even have the desire placed upon them by there parents. They therefore are sentenced to hell. This is why this sin is so horrible one person is always damned regaurdless of the future.
God is not being cruel, he is not being vengeful, he is exercising his perfect justice with love. Even if a child is in hell it is the will of the father so it is good and right. We are only a creation we can not judge him with our standards. We must only love and serve him trying to reach perfection in everything in the time he has allotted for us.
Jesus himself said unless you are baptised by water and spirit you have no life in you. He never stated any other cases or listed exceptions.
You can only “hope” in desire of baptism. Even though all the Church Fathers both Latin and Greek taught that babies were sentenced to hell if unbaptized. The only diffenrce was suffering or not and if we hold true to the latin fathers they will be suffering.
However children who are aborted do not even have the desire placed upon them by there parents. They therefore are sentenced to hell. This is why this sin is so horrible one person is always damned regaurdless of the future.
God is not being cruel, he is not being vengeful, he is exercising his perfect justice with love. Even if a child is in hell it is the will of the father so it is good and right. We are only a creation we can not judge him with our standards. We must only love and serve him trying to reach perfection in everything in the time he has allotted for us.
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