Non-Catholic Perceptions of Catholic Saints, Eucharistic Miracles, + Marian Apparitions?

[Safia]

From what I’ve sensed in my discussions here, there is a certain respect granted to the Catholic Church by those who aren’t Catholic, despite disagreement that the CC was the Church established by Jesus and carries full Truth.

I’m curious to hear, especially from Christians, who share the fundamental belief that Jesus was God and that God can do anything, what you think of the following things (any/all)? I’ll note, just for reference, that the CC doesn’t require belief in any of these things for salvation, though it’s not unusual for a Catholic to have a devotion to a particular Marian message, et cetera, and to have received innumerable graces as a result.

Thanks in advance!

1. • Catholic Saints
   • Therese of Lisieux

   On Christmas Eve, just a few days before Thérèse’s fourteenth birthday, she underwent an experience which she ever after referred to as “my conversion.” It was to exert a profound influence on her life. Let her tell of it—and its moral effect—in her own words: “On that blessed night the sweet infant Jesus, scarcely an hour old, filled the darkness of my soul with floods of light. By becoming weak and little, for love of me, He made me strong and brave: He put His own weapons into my hands so that I went on from strength to strength, beginning, if I may say so, ‘to run as a giant.’” An indelible impression had been made on this attuned soul; she claimed that the Holy Child had healed her of undue sensitiveness and “girded her with His weapons.” It was by reason of this vision that the saint was to become known as “Thérèse of the Child Jesus.” (source)

   • Teresa of Avila

   "A long time after the Lord had already granted me many of the favors I’ve mentioned and other very lofty ones, while I was in prayer one day, I suddenly found that, without knowing how, I had seemingly been put in hell. I understood that the Lord wanted me to see the place the devils had prepared there for me and which I merited because of my sins. This experience took place within the shortest space of time, but even were I to live for many years I think it would be impossible for me to forget it. The entrance it seems to me was similar to a very long and narrow alleyway, like an oven, low and dark and confined; the floor seemed to me to consist of dirty, muddy water emitting foul stench and swarming with putrid vermin. At the end of the alleyway a hole that looked like a small cupboard was hollowed out in the wall; there I found I was placed in a cramped condition. All of this was delightful to see in comparison with what I felt there. What I have described can hardly be exaggerated.

    "What I felt, it seems to me, cannot even begin to be exaggerated; nor can it be understood. I experienced a fire in the soul that I don't know how I could describe. The bodily pains were so unbearable that though I had suffered excruciating ones in this life and according to what doctors say, the worst that can be suffered on earth for all my nerves were shrunken when I was paralyzed, plus many other sufferings of many kinds that I endured and even some as I said, caused by the devil, these were all nothing in comparison with the ones I experienced there. I saw furthermore that they would go on without end and without ever ceasing. This, however, was nothing next to the soul's agonizing: a constriction, a suffocation, an affliction so keenly felt and with such a despairing and tormenting unhappiness that I don't know how to word it strongly enough. To say the experience is as though the soul were continually being wrested from the body would be insufficient, for it would make you think somebody else is taking away the life, whereas here it is the soul itself that tears itself in pieces. The fact is that I don't know how to give a sufficiently powerful description of that interior fire and that despair, coming in addition to such extreme torments and pains. I didn't see who inflicted them on me, but, as it seemed to me, I felt myself burning and crumbling; and I repeat the worst was that interior fire and despair." ([source](http://www.tldm.org/news6/hell3.htm))

   • Faustina Kowalska

   The Lord had an urgency to give Saint Faustina Kowalska, the message of Divine Mercy with or without a Spiritual Director; and so the day was to come, on February 22, 1931, in Vilnius, when the Lord’s Mission would begin to be revealed to her.

   She was in her cell; she saw the Lord Jesus clothed in a white garment. As she explains it,

   "One hand was raised in the gesture of blessing, the other was touching His garment at the breast. From beneath the garment slightly drawn aside at the breast, there was emanating two large rays, one red, the other pale. In silence, I kept my gaze fixed on the Lord; my soul was struck with awe, but also with great joy. After a while, Jesus said to me,

   ‘Paint an image according to the pattern you see, with the signature, Jesus, I trust in You. I desire that this image be venerated, first in your chapel, and then throughout the world.’

   “‘I promise that the soul that will venerate this image will not perish. I also promise victory over its enemies already here on earth, especially at the hour of death. I Myself will defend it as My own glory.’” (source)

   To be cont…

 

[Safia]

1. • Eucharistic Miracles
   • Sienna, Italy – 1730

   By this miracle the Hosts have remained whole and shiny, and have maintained the characteristic scent of unleavened bread. Since they are in such a perfect state of conservation, maintaining the appearances of bread, the Catholic Church assures us that although they were consecrated in the year 1730, these Eucharistic Hosts are still really and truly the Body of Christ. The miraculous Hosts have been cherished and venerated in the Basilica of St. Francis in Sienna for over 250 years. (source)

   • Chirattakonam, India – 2001

   “This Eucharistic miracle was verified recently, on May 5, 2001 in Trivandrum, India. In the Host there appeared the likeness of a man similar to that of Christ crowned with thorns. His Beatitude Cyril Mar Baselice, Archbishop of the diocese of Trivandrum, wrote regarding this prodigy: “…] For us believers what we have seen is something that we have always believed …]. If our Lord is speaking to us by giving us this sign, it certainly needs a response from us”. The monstrance containing the miraculous Host is to this day kept in the church.” (source)

   *A more extensive list of Eucharistic Miracles is available here.
   • Marian Apparitions
   • Fatima

   On 13 May 1917, ten year old Lúcia dos Santos and her cousins Jacinta and Francisco Marto were herding sheep at a location known as the Cova da Iria near their home village of Fátima in Portugal. Lúcia described seeing a woman “brighter than the sun, shedding rays of light clearer and stronger than a crystal ball filled with the most sparkling water and pierced by the burning rays of the sun.”[2] Further appearances were reported to have taken place on the thirteenth day of the month in June and July. In these, the woman exhorted the children to do penance and Acts of Reparation, and to make sacrifices to save sinners. (source)

   • Guadalupe

   According to Roman Catholic tradition, on December 9, 1531, Juan Diego, a recently converted Aztec indigenous peasant, had a vision of a young woman while he was on a hill in the Tepeyac desert, near Mexico City. The lady asked him to build a church exactly on the spot where they were standing. He told the local Bishop Juan de Zumarraga, who asked for proof in exchange.

   Juan Diego went back later and saw the lady again. He told her that the bishop wanted proof, and she instructed Juan Diego to go to the mountain top, where he found Castillian roses,[2] which were native to Bishop Juan de Zumarraga’s hometown and could not possibly bloom during wintertime. Juan Diego cut the roses, placed them in his apron-like tilma and returned to the bishop; an imprint of the Blessed Virgin Mary appeared on the tilma from the residue of the soil and roses.(source)

   • Knock

   On the evening of 21 August 1879, people whose ages ranged from five years to seventy-five and included men, women, teenagers, children, witnessed what they claimed was an apparition of Our Lady, Saint Joseph, and Saint John the Evangelist at the south gable end of the local small parish church, the Church of Saint John the Baptist. Behind them and a little to the left of Saint John was a plain altar. On the altar was a cross and a lamb (a traditional image of Jesus, as reflected in the religious phrase The Lamb of God) with adoring angels. (source)

   I’m also curious to hear what people think of the pattern of these visions/apparitions/miracles being particularly consistent among Catholics.
   
   Cheers!

 

[Safia]

bump

 

[Cavaradossi]

In Orthodoxy, Eucharistic miracles are usually seen as a sign that the priest lacked faith in the reality of the consecration, and so the bread and wine literally become flesh and blood in response to the priest’s doubt.

Visions are usually seen as being dangerous for most people, because not all have the ability to discern between visions caused by demonic activity and visions caused by the activity of God, angels and saints. There are plenty of stories of monks in the desert being tricked by demons or even becoming possessed because they believed in visions caused by demons.

 

[Safia]

Visions are usually seen as being dangerous for most people, because not all have the ability to discern between visions caused by demonic activity and visions caused by the activity of God, angels and saints. There are plenty of stories of monks in the desert being tricked by demons or even becoming possessed because they believed in visions caused by demons.

And the Church understands this, of course, and thus undergoes very careful research, etc.

I’m wondering, though, why particular messages – i.e., those of the glories of Heaven and the sufferings in Purgatory and Hell, or St. Faustina’s Divine Mercy – would be something that came from Satan. Do you reject these visions as untrue or illusory? Or do you think they could be true?

 

[Frank_J]

Eucharistic Miracles, + Marian Apparitions happen in the Orthodox church too. What do RC think of that??

 

[lucky4075]

Eucharistic Miracles, + Marian Apparitions happen in the Orthodox church too. What do RC think of that??

So what? Orthodox to my knowledge have legitimate sacraments including a valid eucharist. Catholic and Orthodox are incredibly similar in so many ways and Truth is revealed through both. Only the Catholic Church contains the fullness of Truth.

 

[Zenas]

Great topic, Safia. I’m 66 years old and hold two post-baccalaureate degrees and I never heard of any of the visions you have listed until about 6 years ago when I decided to learn more about the Catholic Church. Nothing that is taught in the Baptist church would ever expose a person to them, not even to disavow them.

Having studied some of these things, I find the Fatima appearances by far the most convincing and the most intriguing.

 

[ltwin]

Interesting. I’m not in a position to judge the validity of any of these visions, but I don’t really think they are strange, unusual, or impossible. Growing up Pentecostal, I believe (and know of cases) where God still speaks to people through dreams, visions, and miracles. Of course, we need always exercise a measure of discernment before we take any actions based on any revelation we or someone else receives.

 

[Frank_J]

Sorry to Say that the Orthodox Church has the Fullness of the Truth, not RC Religion… We were first.

 

[Safia]

Sorry to Say that the Orthodox Church has the Fullness of the Truth, not RC Religion… We were first.

If only that were true . . . but that’s a discussion for elsewhere.

 

[Frank_J]

I was answering lucky4075 statement not yours Safia…Sorry to say that the Roman Church was not first it was second… The only one who believe is you alone when I say that I taking about the Catholic who still pratices your religion. So we could say it your word against all the other Christians in this world.

 

[Safia]

I was answering lucky4075 statement not yours Safia…Sorry to say that the Roman Church was not first it was second… The only one who believe is you alone when I say that I taking about the Catholic who still pratices your religion. So we could say it your word against all the other Christians in this world.

Historically, the Catholic church existed first, and the Orthodox church split off from it. However, because they were both the same church at one time, and because the Orthodox church still recognizes the Supremacy of St. Peter, and has an unbroken link back to the Apostles, both can technically claim to be the one true church.

The Eastern Orthodox church traces its lineage back to the Apostles, when they founded the Churches in Jerusalem and Constaninople. However, at that time, the Eastern Orthodox church didn’t exist; it was part of the Catholic. So, while the Eastern Orthodox can trace it roots back to Apostles, it can’t trace its EXISTENCE back to that time.

That’s common knowledge.

 

[Safia]

And I’m also curious what non-Catholics think of the incorruptible bodies of Catholic saints.

Thanks!

 

[FabiusMaximus]

I was answering lucky4075 statement not yours Safia…Sorry to say that the Roman Church was not first it was second… The only one who believe is you alone when I say that I taking about the Catholic who still pratices your religion. So we could say it your word against all the other Christians in this world.

Oh stop it.

The Catholic and Orthodox Churches were one in the same from 33 AD to 1054 AD when BOTH SIDES decided to separate.

So it’s a draw.

 

[ltwin]

And I’m also curious what non-Catholics think of the incorruptible bodies of Catholic saints.

Thanks!

To be honest, I think its sort of creepy. Just being honest.