T
thistle
Guest
I don’t agree with you.
Hope of salvation is not speculation.
The possibility of hope of salvation is not speculation.
Non-infallible teachings?
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Hope of salvation is not speculation.
The possibility of hope of salvation is not speculation.
P
Petergee
Guest
D
DanteAlighieri
Guest
A
Abu
Guest
The CCC (1261) teaches that Jesus’ shown love for little children allows us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism.
Baptism of desire has been defined by the Council of Trent, when they use their reason and conscience to do what they believe to be right. As Fr John Hardon states: “By implication their children who die before the use of reason can also be saved.” (The Catholic Catechism, 1974, p510).
**Where do aborted babies go?
Question from on 12-16-2008:
Answer by Judie Brown on 12-17-2008 (EWTN): **
When Pope John Paul II wrote The Gospel of Life, he taught the following:
“I would now like to say a special word to women who have had an abortion. The Church is aware of the many factors which may have influenced your decision, and she does not doubt that in many cases it was a painful and even shattering decision. The wound in your heart may not yet have healed. Certainly what happened was and remains terribly wrong. But do not give in to discouragement and do not lose hope. Try rather to understand what happened and face it honestly. If you have not already done so, give yourselves over with humility and trust to repentance. The Father of mercies is ready to give you his forgiveness and his peace in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. To the same Father and his mercy you can with sure hope entrust your child.”
And as Dr. David Reardon has written,
Thus, even if God’s justice somehow demands that unbaptized babies must be denied the fullness of Heaven, in God’s mercy these same souls could still rest in the arms of Christ, if it is His desire to be with them. Furthermore, if these aborted children are confined to Limbo yet “living in the Lord,” because Christ comes to them, we must also remember that, as Christ told his apostles, “whoever has seen me, has seen the Father” (John 14:9). So, even if the unbaptized are unable to see our Triune God, in all his glory, face-to-face like the sun blazing in the fullness of the day, it appears likely that in the face of Jesus they can at least enjoy the glory of the dawn.
His entire article is located at afterabortion.org/PAR/V5/n3/despair.htm
From the EWTN Library:
ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/INFANT.TXT
Conclusion:
“Our reasoning above tends to show that the aborted babies, and probably other unbaptized babies also, are given grace by God outside the Sacrament of Baptism, and so do not depart this world in original sin, which is merely the lack of grace that should be there.”
Baptism of desire has been defined by the Council of Trent, when they use their reason and conscience to do what they believe to be right. As Fr John Hardon states: “By implication their children who die before the use of reason can also be saved.” (The Catholic Catechism, 1974, p510).
**Where do aborted babies go?
Question from on 12-16-2008:
Answer by Judie Brown on 12-17-2008 (EWTN): **
When Pope John Paul II wrote The Gospel of Life, he taught the following:
“I would now like to say a special word to women who have had an abortion. The Church is aware of the many factors which may have influenced your decision, and she does not doubt that in many cases it was a painful and even shattering decision. The wound in your heart may not yet have healed. Certainly what happened was and remains terribly wrong. But do not give in to discouragement and do not lose hope. Try rather to understand what happened and face it honestly. If you have not already done so, give yourselves over with humility and trust to repentance. The Father of mercies is ready to give you his forgiveness and his peace in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. To the same Father and his mercy you can with sure hope entrust your child.”
And as Dr. David Reardon has written,
Thus, even if God’s justice somehow demands that unbaptized babies must be denied the fullness of Heaven, in God’s mercy these same souls could still rest in the arms of Christ, if it is His desire to be with them. Furthermore, if these aborted children are confined to Limbo yet “living in the Lord,” because Christ comes to them, we must also remember that, as Christ told his apostles, “whoever has seen me, has seen the Father” (John 14:9). So, even if the unbaptized are unable to see our Triune God, in all his glory, face-to-face like the sun blazing in the fullness of the day, it appears likely that in the face of Jesus they can at least enjoy the glory of the dawn.
His entire article is located at afterabortion.org/PAR/V5/n3/despair.htm
From the EWTN Library:
ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/INFANT.TXT
Conclusion:
“Our reasoning above tends to show that the aborted babies, and probably other unbaptized babies also, are given grace by God outside the Sacrament of Baptism, and so do not depart this world in original sin, which is merely the lack of grace that should be there.”
P
Petergee
Guest
Peace to you.
Doesn’t “dogma” simply mean “formally defined and essential doctrine”?
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Abu
Guest
As post #7 shows, Blessed John Paul’s Motu Proprio (= on his own authority) Apostolic Letter Ad Tuendam Fidem, 1998, clarifies:
- A dogma requires the assent of divine and Catholic faith in belief (Canon #750.1).
- An infallible doctrine “proposed definitively” (definitive proponuntur) must be “firmly embraced and held” (now Canon 750.2).The assent for these doctrines is just as full, unreserved and irrevocable, without the supernatural (theological) virtue of faith for a dogma.
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Abu
Guest
Can’t understand what you really mean.
Any Catholic who does not assent to a dogma or a doctrine is a dissenter and unfaithful to Christ through His Church.
There is no licit dissent.
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Abu
Guest
Really? Does the fact that God says “thou shalt not kill” allow you to commit murder if you do not assent? Does anything you feel excuse you from acting responsibly?
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Abu
Guest
When you do not assent, you dissent – that means you are no longer a faithful Catholic who follows Christ – you have freely chosen to reject Him.
D
DianaCC
Guest
Ok, this is my last try.
If P then Q.
Therefore if Not-Q, then Not-P.
If something is a triangle, then it requires three sides.
Therefore if it doesn’t have three sides, then it can’t be a triangle.
If something is a dogma, then it requires assent.
Therefore if it doesn’t have assent, then it can’t be a dogma.
M
mardukm
Guest
Dear sister Diana,
Assent is not required as a condition of its nature, but is required as a corollary of its nature.
A similar connotation comes from the statement: “your parents require respect.” The respect does not make your parents your parents (what makes them your parents is that they gave birth to you), but respect is necessitated by/flows from their nature as your parents.
I hope that helps. It’s a matter of semantics.
Blessings,
Marduk
Assent is not required as a condition of its nature, but is required as a corollary of its nature.
A similar connotation comes from the statement: “your parents require respect.” The respect does not make your parents your parents (what makes them your parents is that they gave birth to you), but respect is necessitated by/flows from their nature as your parents.
I hope that helps. It’s a matter of semantics.
Blessings,
Marduk
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Abu
Guest
Assent to a dogma is an acceptance of an infallible truth of faith. Any truth is not dependant on anyone accepting it for it to be a truth.
The law of gravity means that if you freely jump off of a cliff to the ground 500 feet below you would have committed suicide. God’s law, which includes a dogma promulgated by His Church, means that if you freely choose to disobey you will commit spiritual suicide.
If you drive at twice the speed limit law for the road, and get fined, do you think the magistrate fining you will accept your plea of “I don’t assent to that law”?
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