Not Being Joyful Equates to Bad Christian?

[JamalChristophr]

Perhaps such a question is not the right way to ask but there it is, anyways. I am around many if not most or all Cathilolics who are outwardly quite joyful. So does this simply mean somehow that people who can’t seem to muster joy very often if at all are defective, deficient, poor Christians? I feel this is not a simple question but some or many might think it so. Liturgy and scripture are full of imperatives to rejoice so what is wrong with some of us. Why can some people be joyful so easily? Are there many ways or contingencies for answering or does it simply mean there is something wrong spiritually with Christians who seem to be melancholy, depressed, and or lacking joy? I think many who are in this situation feel like Christians who have failed somehow in their spiritual life.

 

[JamalChristophr]

This thread was actually supposed to go in spirituality rather than evangelization but maybe the moderators moved it.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

Jesus wasn’t constantly on cloud nine Himself, and He did say that He couldn’t promise us happiness in this life. The Devil pays special attention to those who are closest to God, and a lot of the saints experienced regular misery and torment as a result.

Those who say that holy people are happy people are focused too much on what they are getting out their faith, rather than what they are giving to it. True holiness often involves great trials, and it’s hard to stay focused on doing God’s work if you’re constantly beating yourself up over not being happy-clappy all the time.

 

[JamalChristophr]

Thank you Grace. Your thoughts are encouraging.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

Thank you Grace. Your thoughts are encouraging.

Glad to hear it. Take care JC.

 

[oldgraymare2]

Perhaps such a question is not the right way to ask but there it is, anyways. I am around many if not most or all Cathilolics who are outwardly quite joyful. So does this simply mean somehow that people who can’t seem to muster joy very often if at all are defective, deficient, poor Christians? I feel this is not a simple question but some or many might think it so. Liturgy and scripture are full of imperatives to rejoice so what is wrong with some of us. Why can some people be joyful so easily? Are there many ways or contingencies for answering or does it simply mean there is something wrong spiritually with Christians who seem to be melancholy, depressed, and or lacking joy? I think many who are in this situation feel like Christians who have failed somehow in their spiritual life.

Hi JamalChristophr,

I highlighted the part of your post that I especially wanted to comment on, because I don’t believe it for a minute. I would never think that you are failing as a Christian, because you are depressed.

I look at it as another type of illness, that is a particular Cross for you.

I think that there are different ways that we can approach this situation.

I don’t always personally think that it is so easy to “rejoice.”

When you are dealing with multiple Crosses at a time, sometimes it is all that you can do to struggle with them, and to ask God for help in dealing with them. I don’t even think that someone has to be depressed, to sometimes struggle with everyday Crosses, at times.

I sometimes think that we as humans, make the mistake of comparing ourselves to others, thinking that they may have it better than us, or that “the grass may be greener on the other side,”** if someone may seem to be happy when you know that they have trials.** I’m bolding my own comment here. That may seem kind of like a “cynical” answer, but I don’t mean it to be.

It can be a coping mechanism for some, where they use humor to ease their stress.

That’s what I do when I am feeling stressed-out, so I speak from my own personal experience.

As the saying goes, “Laughter is the best medicine.” It’s not that I don’t take things seriously, but I try and balance my outlook so that I don’t get so bogged down with what’s on my mind.

People may have a more joyful outlook too, because they are faithful and they may also have reconciled themselves in a way, that this life is transient, and that one day they will be in the Heavenly Kingdom. That is what they are striving for.

Plus, people may also be joyful due to having hope and faith, knowing that they can rely on the Lord when they need Him, despite their Crosses and trials in life.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

Scriptural teaching on rejoicing is deep stuff. If people won’t tell you why they are putting on a contented - or even complacent - look then if they represent Church then they are short changing you.

If they go so far as to treat you like you are pooping their party it’s them that’s the bad Christians not you.

In any event the bottom line is, “don’t compare how you feel with how others look”!

If you are:

• in chronic pain
• worried
• sad in empathy with others

then thank God because it shows you’ve got a life!

 

[Rosebud77]

Scriptural teaching on rejoicing is deep stuff. If people won’t tell you why they are putting on a contented - or even complacent - look then if they represent Church then they are short changing you.

If they go so far as to treat you like you are pooping their party it’s them that’s the bad Christians not you.

In any event the bottom line is, “don’t compare how you feel with how others look”!

If you are:

• in chronic pain
• worried
• sad in empathy with others

then thank God because it shows you’ve got a life!

Depends on what you mean by “joyful”!

And there are times and places to show your pain and grief and times not to let others be weighed down by it

True JOY is a quiet inner thing. Does not depend on what is happening to you. I live in almost constant pain, and exhaustion but that is my problem and only a few ever know it. Yesterday as I was saying goodbye to dear friends prior to my move, I was deeply exhausted, in pain and with a bad cold. And am heading for 80
Yet more than one person commented on how alive I am etc.

The only time I let others know was when they expected me to walk further than I can and then I politely said I cannot do that and they arranged transport, bless them

My joy is peace in Jesus. Not distress at other things. A joy to give in strength to others.

And frankly, I no longer care if anyone thinks I am a bad Christian… I know differently.

There are times to seek help and show pain and times when that is not the right thing to do.

My pain is my burden. My joy is my sharing. In giving. In living the love of Jesus.

 

[pianistclare]

Right.
Joy is not happy clappy.
Joy is in the heart and the mind.
Peace.

 

[Bonnie]

Depends on what you mean by “joyful”!

Excellent! The first thing to do in any discussion is to define terms. Joy, faith, peace, contentment - most people have their own little spin on the meanings of these words. I can laugh like crazy - have been know to have extended giggle fits when something strikes me as funny. But am I joyful? Dunno. I’m depressed a lot - have been for most of my life - but with proper diet & lowered expectations, I’m much more at peace now. I feel content with life most of the time now.

But the short answer is (IMO) - one’s mood doesn’t equal being a good or bad Christian.

 

[Sarcelle]

We should not base the strength of our faith on feelings. They blow like the wind and are not always under our control.

All merit lies in the will.

It is in what we decide to do that matters.

 

[Polycarp1]

I think there’s an abiding deep sense of joy in Christians who really know that God loves them and know that Christ died so that their sins can be forgiven. Or there should be. On a day to day basis as we face the trials along our spiritual and physical journeys there are often unpleasant bumps in the road that are not pleasant and can be very sad in themselves. But Jesus didn’t promise that we would always be happy along the journey, He said “Take up your cross and follow me” Carry a cross is not fun but the realization of who is leading us and to where is pure joy!

 

[Rosebud77]

I think there’s an abiding deep sense of joy in Christians who really know that God loves them and know that Christ died so that their sins can be forgiven. Or there should be. On a day to day basis as we face the trials along our spiritual and physical journeys there are often unpleasant bumps in the road that are not pleasant and can be very sad in themselves. But Jesus didn’t promise that we would always be happy along the journey, He said “Take up your cross and follow me” Carry a cross is not fun but the realization of who is leading us and to where is pure joy!

Hmmmm. that seems… heavy

 

[FollowChrist34]

Perhaps such a question is not the right way to ask but there it is, anyways. I am around many if not most or all Cathilolics who are outwardly quite joyful. So does this simply mean somehow that people who can’t seem to muster joy very often if at all are defective, deficient, poor Christians? I feel this is not a simple question but some or many might think it so. Liturgy and scripture are full of imperatives to rejoice so what is wrong with some of us. Why can some people be joyful so easily? Are there many ways or contingencies for answering or does it simply mean there is something wrong spiritually with Christians who seem to be melancholy, depressed, and or lacking joy? I think many who are in this situation feel like Christians who have failed somehow in their spiritual life.

I feel the same way. Authentic, spontaneous joy is one thing, but canned, artificial joy I have no use for. If you genuinely believe in and love Christ, live in Him, you have joy, eternity. You also have suffering, trials, tribulations; we are in a vale of tears after all. Don’t forget the suffering of others and it is ok to acknowledge your own. And, yes, God did overcome the world and suffering, got it. All the same, no need to put on an act for anyone, man or God. I actually wonder about all this Christmas elation in the face of the world’s misery. And I think it is Christ in me that is suspicious of it. Last point, often I think the amount people have suffered in life determines how they show joy and sorrow, empathy. Keep that in mind. Usually the official joy theme is well intended.

 

[Googler]

Like Mary’s Magnifcat, our spirits should rejoice in God our Savior because our sins have been forgiven.
We rejoice in God and for the gifts He has given us.
And we never give ourselves the credit, for we are dirt and God is everything.
And during Holy Mass there’s no need to display emotional joy outside of our hearts.

 

[Reuben_J]

Perhaps such a question is not the right way to ask but there it is, anyways. I am around many if not most or all Cathilolics who are outwardly quite joyful. So does this simply mean somehow that people who can’t seem to muster joy very often if at all are defective, deficient, poor Christians? I feel this is not a simple question but some or many might think it so. Liturgy and scripture are full of imperatives to rejoice so what is wrong with some of us. Why can some people be joyful so easily? Are there many ways or contingencies for answering or does it simply mean there is something wrong spiritually with Christians who seem to be melancholy, depressed, and or lacking joy? I think many who are in this situation feel like Christians who have failed somehow in their spiritual life.

‘In Thy presence there is fulness of joy’. (Ps 16:11)

Such line is self-explained. A Spirit filled Christian is joyful because he is freed of the burden that enslaves him, for Jesus has carried them away. In spiritual term this is often meant to have one’s sins being forgiven and to experience the forgiveness tangibly.

That can be a cause for joy - knowing that God has forgiven one’s sin, being His child and dependent on His providence.

On the other hand, sin bogs us down and the separation from God makes us restless, where we dwell on the negative which can only burden us.

But what is joy on a person? I think this is where we often get it wrong. Does it mean we go gaga or laugh for no reason or does it perhaps a state of inner contentment? If our heart is not troubled, our countenance would be lifted up and vice versa.

 

[Bookcat]

Perhaps such a question is not the right way to ask but there it is, anyways. I am around many if not most or all Cathilolics who are outwardly quite joyful. So does this simply mean somehow that people who can’t seem to muster joy very often if at all are defective, deficient, poor Christians? I feel this is not a simple question but some or many might think it so. Liturgy and scripture are full of imperatives to rejoice so what is wrong with some of us. Why can some people be joyful so easily? Are there many ways or contingencies for answering or does it simply mean there is something wrong spiritually with Christians who seem to be melancholy, depressed, and or lacking joy? I think many who are in this situation feel like Christians who have failed somehow in their spiritual life.

Remember it is not simply a matter of an “emotion” as good as that can be.

It is a deeper interior joy. One that can persist even in the midst of struggles and pain.

Even if I have a cold I may not “feel emotionally joyful”…but again that is not the entire focus.

Read* all* of the following quotes.

 

[Bookcat]

“If we are in relation with him who does not die, who is Life itself and Love itself, then we are in life. Then we “live”.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI (Spe Salvi)

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20071130_spe-salvi.html

(such is not per se a matter of the emotions…tis deeper that such …though it can can does effect the emotions too at times…Christian joy though can exist even in great suffering…)

“The joy of the gospel fills the hearts and lives of all who encounter Jesus.”

“I invite all Christians, everywhere, at this very moment, to a renewed personal encounter with Jesus Christ, or at least an openness to letting him encounter them; I ask all of you to do this unfailingly each day. No one should think that this invitation is not meant for him or her, since “no one is excluded from the joy brought by the Lord”.”

“The Lord does not disappoint those who take this risk; whenever we take a step towards Jesus, we come to realize that he is already there, waiting for us with open arms. Now is the time to say to Jesus: “Lord, I have let myself be deceived; in a thousand ways I have shunned your love, yet here I am once more, to renew my covenant with you. I need you. Save me once again, Lord, take me once more into your redeeming embrace”. How good it feels to come back to him whenever we are lost! Let me say this once more: God never tires of forgiving us; we are the ones who tire of seeking his mercy. Christ, who told us to forgive one another “seventy times seven” (Mt 18:22) has given us his example: he has forgiven us seventy times seven. Time and time again he bears us on his shoulders. No one can strip us of the dignity bestowed upon us by this boundless and unfailing love. With a tenderness which never disappoints, but is always capable of restoring our joy, he makes it possible for us to lift up our heads and to start anew. Let us not flee from the resurrection of Jesus, let us never give up, come what will. May nothing inspire more than his life, which impels us onwards!”…

“I realize of course that joy is not expressed the same way at all times in life, especially at moments of great difficulty. Joy adapts and changes, but it always endures, even as a flicker of light born of our personal certainty that, when everything is said and done, we are infinitely loved.”

~ Pope Francis (The Joy of the Gospel)

w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/apost_exhortations/documents/papa-francesco_esortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium.html#The_joy_of_the_gospel

"Moreover, our radical belonging to Christ and the fact that “we are in him” must imbue in us an attitude of total trust and immense joy. In short, we must indeed exclaim with St Paul: “If God is for us, who is against us?” (Rom 8: 31). And the reply is that nothing and no one “will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom 8: 39). Our Christian life, therefore, stands on the soundest and safest rock one can imagine. And from it we draw all our energy, precisely as the Apostle wrote: “I can do all things in him who strengthens me” (Phil 4: 13).

Therefore, let us face our life with its joys and sorrows supported by these great sentiments that Paul offers to us. By having an experience of them we will realize how true are the words the Apostle himself wrote: “I know whom I have believed, and I am sure that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me”; in other words, until the Day (II Tm 1: 12) of our definitive meeting with Christ the Judge, Saviour of the world and our Saviour."

~ Pope Benedict XVI

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061108.html

 

[Bookcat]

“Gaudete in Domino semper - Rejoice in the Lord always (Phil 4: 4).”

“Christian joy thus springs from this certainty: God is close, he is with me, he is with us, in joy and in sorrow, in sickness and in health, as a friend and faithful spouse. And this joy endures, even in trials, in suffering itself. It does not remain only on the surface; it dwells in the depths of the person who entrusts himself to God and trusts in him.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/angelus/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_ang_20071216.html

“… there is one great Friend, who is the author of the joy of all and who fills our hearts with a joy that surpasses all other joys and lasts a lifetime: he is Jesus.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/speeches/2012/december/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20121220_acr.html

]“Dear friends, today too the Risen One enters our homes and our hearts, even when, at times, the doors are closed. He enters giving joy and peace, life and hope, gifts we need for our human and spiritual rebirth. Only he can roll away those stones from the tombs in which all too often people seal themselves off from their own feelings, their own relationships, their own behaviour; stones that sanction death: division, enmity, resentment, envy, diffidence, indifference. Only he, the Living One, can give meaning to existence and enable those who are weary and sad, downhearted and drained of hope, to continue on their journey. This was the experience of the two disciples who were on their way from Jerusalem to Emmaus on Easter Day (cf. Lk 24:13-35). They were talking about Jesus but their sad looks (cf. v. 17), expressed their disappointed hopes, uncertainty and melancholy. They had left their homeland to follow Jesus with his friends and had discovered a new reality in which forgiveness and love were no longer only words but had a tangible effect on life. Jesus of Nazareth had made all things new, he had transformed their life. But now he was dead and it all seemed to be over.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI

"With Jesus’ arrival the disciple’s situation of anguish changes radically. He enters through closed doors, he stands in their midst and gives them the peace that reassures: “Peace to you” (Jn 20:19b). It is a common greeting but it now acquires new significance because it brings about an inner change; it is the Easter greeting that enables the disciples to overcome all fear. The peace that Jesus brings is the gift of salvation that he had promised in his farewell discourses: “peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid” (Jn 14:27).

On this day of the Resurrection he gives it in fullness and for the community it becomes a source of joy, the certainty of victory, and security in relying on God. “Let not your hearts be troubled”, (Jn 14:1), do not be afraid, he also says to us."

~ Pope Benedict XVI

“In Jerusalem they hear the news of Jesus’ Resurrection and, in turn, they recount their own experience, on fire with love for the Risen One who has opened their hearts to an uncontainable joy. As St Peter says, they were “born anew to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (cf. 1 Pet 1:3). Indeed, the enthusiasm of faith, love for the community, the need to communicate the Good News was reborn within them. The Teacher is risen and with him all life is reborn; witnessing to this event becomes an irrepressible need for them.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/audiences/2012/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20120411.html

"“Gaudete in Domino semper”, St Paul wrote: “Rejoice in the Lord always” (Phil 4:4). True joy is not a fruit of “divertirsi” [having a good time] understood in the etymological sense of the word di-vertere (di-version), that is, shirking the commitments of life and one’s responsibilities.

True joy is linked to something deeper. Of course, in the all too often frenetic pace of daily life it is important to find time for rest and relaxation, but true joy is linked to our relationship with God. Those who have encountered Christ in their own lives feel a serenity and joy in their hearts that no one and no situation can take from them. St Augustine understood this very well; in his quest for truth, peace and joy, after seeking them in vain in many things he concluded with his famous words: “and our heart is restless until it rests in God” (cf. Confessions, I, 1, 1).

True joy is not merely a passing state of mind or something that can be achieved with the person’s own effort; rather it is a gift, born from the encounter with the living Person of Jesus and, making room within ourselves, from welcoming the Holy Spirit who guides our lives. It is the invitation of the Apostle Paul who says: “May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thess 5:23)."

~ Pope Benedict XVI

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/angelus/2011/documents/hf_ben-xvi_ang_20111211.html