Not resentment, exactly

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holyrood

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Through friendship with one person, I’ve learned a lot about another–a woman who lives an incredibly hedonistic lifestyle. She is able-bodied, intelligent, healthy, educated,and talented, and childless by choice. Yet she spends all day at home while her husband works a very demanding job to support her. They have an open marriage. She spends her day online arranging hook ups, dates, ‘parties’ (the kind I won’t specify on a family friendly site.), meeting friends for drinking and lavish meals. This, as far as anything that’s been mentioned about her in the last 2 years, is her entire life: satisfying her own desires. No charity work, no helping neighbors, no giving to the poor, nothing but satisfying that urge.

I, by contrast, have spent the last 8 years dealing with my alcoholic family of origin and a husband who turned out to be lying, cheating, and taking money out of my account after he’d put us deeply into debt on things totally unaccounted for (Gambling? I really don’t know, there’s absolutely no accounting for where such a large amount of money went). This despite 25 years of doing my utmost to live my faith fully and completely.

As much as I understand that faith is not about doing it so God ‘gives us good stuff,’ I’m still having an incredibly hard time being brought face to face with a woman who ignores God in every possible way and yet has been showered with a husband who’s devoted to her and loving, and is apparently the husband all of us would want, while despite years of praying to save my marriage and trying to do my part–I was ‘rewarded’ with someone who in addition tore me down and criticized me to others.

I contemplate the Book of Job. I remind myself that my focus is on eternity, not these few years. I know that I am happy with who I am and how *I’ve *chosen to live my life. I’ve begun saying the Seven Sorrows of Mary chaplet. I pray for this woman, for this couple. I understand a little of her background, which helps me have compassion for her. I am happy, genuinely happy, that God has given her a husband to love and treasure her in the wake of an abusive childhood.

But I still struggle terribly with failing to understand why God has not given me someone to love, protect, defend, support, etc.

I’m wondering if I need to pray more for this woman, and also if I need to back away from friendship with the mutual friend so this stuff is not always in my face. Any thoughts, similar experiences, and prayers for this situation would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
 
Sounds more like gossip to me. Her marriage business is her business. The next time your “friend” brings up the subject, direct her attention somewhere more charitable.
 
holyrood said:
They have an open marriage. She spends her day online arranging hook ups, dates, ‘parties’ (the kind I won’t specify on a family friendly site.), meeting friends for drinking and lavish meals.

As much as I understand that faith is not about doing it so God ‘gives us good stuff,’ I’m still having an incredibly hard time being brought face to face with a woman who ignores God in every possible way and yet has been showered with a husband who’s devoted to her and loving, and is apparently the husband all of us would want, while despite years of praying to save my marriage and trying to do my part–I was ‘rewarded’ with someone who in addition tore me down and criticized me to others.
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So, do you really want a husband who wants you to have an “open marriage”, a husband who wants you to have dates with other men, a husband who “loves you so much that he’ll share you with other men?”

Are you really resentful that this lady has a husband who shares her with other men?

This lady’s husband is not the type of husband that I want. I don’t have any friends who seem to want a husband like her husband either.
 
Thou shalt not covet. Nothing you have stated about this woman and her husband would be anything to envy. As hedonists these gifts do not come from God. Would you truly desire a husband that approves of this lifestyle. For all you know this may be what he demands from his wife. Gossip of any kind is sinful and we should not be a part of it. It is up to you to refuse to talk about others. How can you be so sure that all that has been told to you is the truth?
 
holyrood said:
a woman who … They have an open marriage. She spends her day online arranging hook ups, dates, ‘parties’ (the kind I won’t specify on a family friendly site.), meeting friends for drinking and lavish meals.

a woman …showered with a husband who’s devoted to her and loving,

But I still struggle terribly with failing to understand why God has not given me someone to love, protect, defend, support, etc.
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Where do you see that this poor, poor wife has a husband who loves, protects, defends, and supports her?

How does a husband show love for a wife when they have an open marriage and she has “dates” and “parties” of kinds that are not proper to mention?

What is he protecting her from? Other men who “date” her?

How does he defend her? From men who “date” her?

How does he support her? Her chosen life style of “hook-ups” and “dates”?

Do you really resent their marriage? Do they have a “marriage”?
 
You said you came from an alcoholic family. Often, people who were born into alcoholic families become codependent. One thing that it can mean is that they know nothing else but addiction. They can be attracted, subconsciously, to people with alcoholism and other addictions.

Codependents are like magnets for narcissists.

So, in the end, a codependent can say something like…hey, I was beaten and abused by my alcoholic father. I left that only to be abused and beaten by my boyfriend, to leave him, to be beaten by my first husband, to leave him, to be beaten and abused by a second husband, etc. They can wonder how it’s possible one person can be subjected to all this, have such bad luck.

Right now, you might be asking yourself right now why this pattern keeps repeating itself, but it’s actually because on some level, you grew up with addiction and, subconsciously, may be drawn to it. It’s the only thing that’s “normal” to you. Anything normal might even seem “boring”, since it is without all the drama you may be used to from your upbringing.

You said your father had an addiction to alcohol and the next relationship was, gambling?

Often, codependents feel a need to try to rescue others, something we learned from our family of origin. There is a need to be needed and sometimes confuse this, and other things, with love.
 
holyrood said:
I, by contrast, have spent the last 8 years dealing with my alcoholic family of origin and a husband who turned out to be lying, cheating, and taking money out of my account after he’d put us deeply into debt on things totally unaccounted for (Gambling? I really don’t know, there’s absolutely no accounting for where such a large amount of money went). This despite 25 years of doing my utmost to live my faith fully and completely.

despite years of praying to save my marriage and trying to do my part–I was ‘rewarded’ with someone who in addition tore me down and criticized me to others.

I contemplate the Book of Job. I remind myself that my focus is on eternity, not these few years. I know that I am happy with who I am and how *I’ve *chosen to live my life. I’ve begun saying the Seven Sorrows of Mary chaplet.

But I still struggle terribly with failing to understand why God has not given me someone to love, protect, defend, support, etc.
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I suggest you not speak about this lady with your friend any more. There is no reason to share in “stories” about what might be going on with the poor troubled woman and her troubled husband in their reported “open marriage”.

You do have your own concerns with your own marriage. That is where you want to focus, on helping yourself find peace among your family of origin and with your husband.

For dealing with the issues of an alcoholic family of origin, look for professionals such as Al-Anon. al-anon.alateen.org/

Maybe you need to look into a support group for gambling family member if you believe some of your husband’s money troubles may stem from gambling.

Have you and your husband considered speaking with a priest or counselor for the issues with lying and cheating? If your husband does not want to do this with you, you may find great comfort in doing so yourself.

Have you attended a Worldwide Marriage Encounter Weekend or Retrouvaille?

Worldwide Marriage Encounter is for good marriages to become great marriages. It is for a weekend. There is no discussion about your marriage with anyone but the two of you. Presenting Couples and a Presenting Priest will give talks on specific topics. The two of you then go to your private room to discuss those topics with each other. This is not counseling. It is a tool to use in your daily life. wwme.org/

Retrouvaille is for troubled marriages. It is more than one weekend. It is not counseling, either. It is to help couples learn how to work on their troubled marriage.
retrouvaille.org/

Either of these may help you two when you want to discuss together such issues as when he lies or when he cheats, or how to talk about the money issues. Maybe WWME or Retrouvaille would be a point of healing in your marriage.
 
holyrood said:
I’m wondering if I need to pray more for this woman, and also if I need to back away from friendship with the mutual friend so this stuff is not always in my face. Any thoughts, similar experiences, and prayers for this situation would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
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Please follow your heart and pray for this poor woman, she is steeped in a sinful, horrible life that may have the look of what the world promises, but in the end leads to eternal separation from God. She is heading straight into the Abyss.

Treasures in this world will perish, and all those that lusted after them along with into perdition.

Pray (Pray!) for this suffering soul, that she turn her life about and find true Faith in Christ Jesus.

I add you, and this poor woman deep in sin, to my prayers.

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee…

:signofcross:
 
hugs holyrod

Psalm 73: 1-28 NRSVCE
A Psalm of Asaph.

**Truly God is good to the upright,
to those who are pure in heart.
But as for me, my feet had almost stumbled;
my steps had nearly slipped.
For I was envious of the arrogant;
I saw the prosperity of the wicked.

For they have no pain;
their bodies are sound and sleek.
They are not in trouble as others are;
they are not plagued like other people.
Therefore pride is their necklace;
violence covers them like a garment.
Their eyes swell out with fatness;
their hearts overflow with follies.
They scoff and speak with malice;
loftily they threaten oppression.
They set their mouths against heaven,
and their tongues range over the earth.

Therefore the people turn and praise them,
and find no fault in them.
And they say, “How can God know?
Is there knowledge in the Most High?”
Such are the wicked;
always at ease, they increase in riches.
All in vain I have kept my heart clean
and washed my hands in innocence.
For all day long I have been plagued,
and am punished every morning.

If I had said, “I will talk on in this way,”
I would have been untrue to the circle of your children.
But when I thought how to understand this,
it seemed to me a wearisome task,
until I went into the sanctuary of God;
then I perceived their end.
Truly you set them in slippery places;
you make them fall to ruin.
How they are destroyed in a moment,
swept away utterly by terrors!
They are like a dream when one awakes;
on awaking you despise their phantoms.

When my soul was embittered,
when I was pricked in heart,
I was stupid and ignorant;
I was like a brute beast toward you.
Nevertheless I am continually with you;
you hold my right hand.
You guide me with your counsel,
and afterward you will receive me with honor.
Whom have I in heaven but you?
And there is nothing on earth that I desire other than you.
My flesh and my heart may fail,
but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.

Indeed, those who are far from you will perish;
you put an end to those who are false to you.
But for me it is good to be near God;
I have made the Lord God my refuge,
to tell of all your works.**

Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death.

Amen.
 
TK421 said:
hugs holyrod

Psalm 73: 1-28 NRSVCE
A Psalm of Asaph.

**Truly God is good to the upright,
to those who are pure in heart.
But as for me, my feet had almost stumbled;
my steps had nearly slipped.
For I was envious of the arrogant;
I saw the prosperity of the wicked.

For they have no pain;
their bodies are sound and sleek.
They are not in trouble as others are;
they are not plagued like other people.
Therefore pride is their necklace;
violence covers them like a garment.
Their eyes swell out with fatness;
their hearts overflow with follies.
They scoff and speak with malice;
loftily they threaten oppression.
They set their mouths against heaven,
and their tongues range over the earth.

Therefore the people turn and praise them,
and find no fault in them.
And they say, “How can God know?
Is there knowledge in the Most High?”
Such are the wicked;
always at ease, they increase in riches.
All in vain I have kept my heart clean
and washed my hands in innocence.
For all day long I have been plagued,
and am punished every morning.

If I had said, “I will talk on in this way,”
I would have been untrue to the circle of your children.
But when I thought how to understand this,
it seemed to me a wearisome task,
until I went into the sanctuary of God;
then I perceived their end.
Truly you set them in slippery places;
you make them fall to ruin.
How they are destroyed in a moment,
swept away utterly by terrors!
They are like a dream when one awakes;
on awaking you despise their phantoms.

When my soul was embittered,
when I was pricked in heart,
I was stupid and ignorant;
I was like a brute beast toward you.
Nevertheless I am continually with you;
you hold my right hand.
You guide me with your counsel,
and afterward you will receive me with honor.
Whom have I in heaven but you?
And there is nothing on earth that I desire other than you.
My flesh and my heart may fail,
but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.

Indeed, those who are far from you will perish;
you put an end to those who are false to you.
But for me it is good to be near God;
I have made the Lord God my refuge,
to tell of all your works.**

Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death.

Amen.
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Thank you for this beautiful prayer.

To clear up a few things, that were misunderstood: I’ve known this woman for several years. I don’t sit and gossip about her. These things are mentioned only now and again, as this woman is a very close friend of my friend. I know they are true, because I know the husband himself from a theater group we’re in, he’s also a friend, he himself talks about it, and he’s not making her do any of this.

But no, this is not sitting and gossiping. It’s just mentions, as in, ‘Oh, I won’t be getting together with her tonight because she’s going to a party.’ The person mentioning these things doesn’t disapprove, so it’s not sitting and gossiping about it, strictly passing mentions that have added up over a long time.

However, you’re right. As I’ve been thinking about this issue, I have decided that’s one step I need to take: let this person know I don’t want to hear about these activities anymore. I suppose I’ve been avoiding saying anything because in part, I don’t want to hurt feelings by saying, I don’t think much of your friend and her activities.

I’m not married. We went to counseling, spoke to priests, did Retrouvaille, the works, and the priests, three of them, told me this is not a marriage. I don’t know if my husband ever gambled. I only know that an extremely large amount of money eventually turned out to be missing, with absolutely no evidence of what it was spent on, as we lived very frugally.

Thank you for the perspective *and reminder *that encouraging and continuing an open marriage is *not *the love that I want.

What I see that I ‘want’ is a guy who thinks his wife is great. Who would have done things such as this particular husband did: stand up to her family and tell them to back off and behave, rather than the way my husband behaved. That’s the kind of ‘defend her’ I’m thinking of. He supports her financially.

Clearwater, I came to understand years ago why I chose someone like my husband–although I will also say he hid his true nature *very *well *before *we were married. I have been to counseling and al-anon, and continue to go to an online al-anon group.

Thank you for all who are praying for this couple. I have known both of them socially, not merely through this friend, and I do care about their well-being.
 
I’m keeping you in my prayers.

Your neighbors life doesn’t sound like any great shakes to me. She sounds like a lost little soul searching for love in all the wrong places–it’s kind of pathological.

There’s a quote that goes along the lines: of envying the unsaved for their riches is like envying a corpse for the beautiful flowers draping their coffin.

And don’t worry–I’m not some holy roller judging you–I go through the same feelings of frustration/resentment–that’s why I find quotes like this to shore myself up!😉
 
DaisymaeD said:
I’m keeping you in my prayers.

Your neighbors life doesn’t sound like any great shakes to me. She sounds like a lost little soul searching for love in all the wrong places–it’s kind of pathological.

There’s a quote that goes along the lines: of envying the unsaved for their riches is like envying a corpse for the beautiful flowers draping their coffin.

And don’t worry–I’m not some holy roller judging you–I go through the same feelings of frustration/resentment–that’s why I find quotes like this to shore myself up!😉
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Thank you for your prayers, and thank you for the quote. I do know that she’s very much on the wrong path, but I’ve been guilty of getting stuck on: “She’s got a solid 25 year marriage with a guy who loves her and would do anything for her. How can this be when I did absolutely *everything *in my power to have a good marriage and it failed?”

Maybe sometimes we just need each other, to remember the things we really know.
 
holyrood said:
I have decided that’s one step I need to take: let this person know I don’t want to hear about these activities anymore. I suppose I’ve been avoiding saying anything because in part, I don’t want to hurt feelings by saying, I don’t think much of your friend and her activities.
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I think this is a very good decision. You can simply say that hearing about her escapades is uncomfortable for you. I find that when I don’t respond to a topic that the person eventually gives up.
 
holyrood said:
Through friendship with one person, I’ve learned a lot about another–a woman who lives an incredibly hedonistic lifestyle. She is able-bodied, intelligent, healthy, educated,and talented, and childless by choice. Yet she spends all day at home while her husband works a very demanding job to support her. They have an open marriage. She spends her day online arranging hook ups, dates, ‘parties’ (the kind I won’t specify on a family friendly site.), meeting friends for drinking and lavish meals. This, as far as anything that’s been mentioned about her in the last 2 years, is her entire life: satisfying her own desires. No charity work, no helping neighbors, no giving to the poor, nothing but satisfying that urge.

I, by contrast, have spent the last 8 years dealing with my alcoholic family of origin and a husband who turned out to be lying, cheating, and taking money out of my account after he’d put us deeply into debt on things totally unaccounted for (Gambling? I really don’t know, there’s absolutely no accounting for where such a large amount of money went). This despite 25 years of doing my utmost to live my faith fully and completely.

As much as I understand that faith is not about doing it so God ‘gives us good stuff,’ I’m still having an incredibly hard time being brought face to face with a woman who ignores God in every possible way and yet has been showered with a husband who’s devoted to her and loving, and is apparently the husband all of us would want, while despite years of praying to save my marriage and trying to do my part–I was ‘rewarded’ with someone who in addition tore me down and criticized me to others.

I contemplate the Book of Job. I remind myself that my focus is on eternity, not these few years. I know that I am happy with who I am and how *I’ve *chosen to live my life. I’ve begun saying the Seven Sorrows of Mary chaplet. I pray for this woman, for this couple. I understand a little of her background, which helps me have compassion for her. I am happy, genuinely happy, that God has given her a husband to love and treasure her in the wake of an abusive childhood.

But I still struggle terribly with failing to understand why God has not given me someone to love, protect, defend, support, etc.

I’m wondering if I need to pray more for this woman, and also if I need to back away from friendship with the mutual friend so this stuff is not always in my face. Any thoughts, similar experiences, and prayers for this situation would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
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Some couples I’ve known also have similar problems. It seems they have been excelent parents and yet get no regard from their children, and yet others seem to be totally indifferent to their grown children and are honored by their kids. It looks like nothing of good really works for sure and sometimes in reverse. And I know they all ask themselves the question, “why?”, “I’ve done my best.” It is a very common anomally. Goodness dosen’t get rewarded and badness gets rewarded.

But it really does work right. God loves those whom he asks suffering. It tells him the degree of our love of him and that he is preparing us for something much better. The Father asked his son to offer himself on the cross, or suffering. Even tho we may not want it, suffering is the way. So it may be very hard at this point in your life, it may be thru your suffering that your husband will receive the graces he needs to win the final victory. Also the graces you may need to illuminate your life grow even closer to Jesus. He will ask of us only that which we can bear and loves us more and more when we say “blessed be the Lord” in all our circumstances.

The people who don’t seem to deserve God’s goodness and blessings on earth may look like golden children of God when they seem to prosper so greatly without problems. I would say that is a fair assessment as to the outward appearance. But then they are receiving in this world reward for any good they may be doing in this life and are not storing it up for eternity. God is a just God and will give reward even to people who do bad for their good deeds. But they are not to be envied because of what they will have to face in the future. They above all need our prayers so it won’t be too late for them. Envy should be replaced with our understanding for them and to beg God to show mercy to them. “For they know not what they do.”

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.
 
fred_conty said:
Some couples I’ve known also have similar problems. It seems they have been excelent parents and yet get no regard from their children, and yet others seem to be totally indifferent to their grown children and are honored by their kids. It looks like nothing of good really works for sure and sometimes in reverse. And I know they all ask themselves the question, “why?”, “I’ve done my best.” It is a very common anomally. Goodness dosen’t get rewarded and badness gets rewarded.

But it really does work right. God loves those whom he asks suffering. It tells him the degree of our love of him and that he is preparing us for something much better. The Father asked his son to offer himself on the cross, or suffering. Even tho we may not want it, suffering is the way. So it may be very hard at this point in your life, it may be thru your suffering that your husband will receive the graces he needs to win the final victory. Also the graces you may need to illuminate your life grow even closer to Jesus. He will ask of us only that which we can bear and loves us more and more when we say “blessed be the Lord” in all our circumstances.

The people who don’t seem to deserve God’s goodness and blessings on earth may look like golden children of God when they seem to prosper so greatly without problems. I would say that is a fair assessment as to the outward appearance. But then they are receiving in this world reward for any good they may be doing in this life and are not storing it up for eternity. God is a just God and will give reward even to people who do bad for their good deeds. But they are not to be envied because of what they will have to face in the future. They above all need our prayers so it won’t be too late for them. **Envy should be replaced with our understanding for them and to beg God to show mercy to them. ** “For they know not what they do.”

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.
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Thank you. Why do the wicked prosper and the just suffer? Yes, this is exactly what I was trying to say, and I think I’ve been so caught up in the particulars, I couldn’t boil it down. Thank you for your wise words. The part in bold–usually I do quite well with that. This week, I really needed the reminder. I suspect that my feelings and struggle with this crash in the weeks that are particularly hectic and difficult, and I lose sight of what I’m normally able to see. I usually do well at having compassion for her and praying for her. Thank you for the reminder.
 
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