Nothing exists at the moment of experience, now

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Lets consider a system being in state P (past). This state can only cause one state F (future) and nothing exist as a state at the moment N (now).

Facts:

A) Existence of one state at each moment is necessary and sufficient to cause another state
B) Two states cannot coexist
C) Awareness of a state is necessary for the causation and it happened at the moment (now)

Proof of (A):
  1. Lets assume that P exist
  2. We can conclude P is necessary for F to exist
  3. Moreover if only P causes F then N cannot exist since its existence has some causal effect on F
Proof of (B):
B is obvious.

Proof of (C):
  1. Lets assume a system is in state of S
  2. Lets assume that S causes S’
  3. From (B) we can deduce that S should be annihilated before S’
  4. This is problematic S cannot exist and exist not unless the awareness of state S exist in consciousness after annihilation of S
  5. The awareness of S is enough to cause S’ in later stage
From this we can conclude that we a sequence of existence, experience, existence…

Conclusion:
From (A) and (B), we can conclude that nothing exists at the moment of experience so called now.
 
Lets consider a system being in state P (past). This state can only cause one state F (future) and nothing exist as a state at the moment N (now).

Facts:

A) Existence of one state at each moment is necessary and sufficient to cause another state
B) Two states cannot coexist
C) Awareness of a state is necessary for the causation and it happened at the moment (now)

Proof of (A):
  1. Lets assume that P exist
  2. We can conclude P is necessary for F to exist
  3. Moreover if only P causes F then N cannot exist since its existence has some causal effect on F
Proof of (B):
B is obvious.

Proof of (C):
  1. Lets assume a system is in state of S
  2. Lets assume that S causes S’
  3. From (B) we can deduce that S should be annihilated before S’
  4. This is problematic S cannot exist and exist not unless the awareness of state S exist in consciousness after annihilation of S
  5. The awareness of S is enough to cause S’ in later stage
From this we can conclude that we a sequence of existence, experience, existence…

Conclusion:
From (A) and (B), we can conclude that nothing exists at the moment of experience so called now.
I don’t see why you cannot have two states coexisting at the same time.
 
I don’t see why you cannot have two states coexisting at the same time.
Because only one form/state could be actually there within one universe. What is there outside, the whole, is one thing and cannot be two.
 
Because only one form/state could be actually there within one universe. What is there outside, the whole, is one thing and cannot be two.
I disagree. Mixed states occur all the time.
 
One simple example would be any subsystem of an quantum entangled state. Such would always be in a mixed state if the subsystem is itself entangled.
I knew this would go quantum.
That’s the new trend now.
Millionaires have gone the quantum route. There is a God! Quantum!
Thank you Dinesh.
 
If I may take a Moorean slant on this.
  1. Now here is one hand.
  2. Now here is another.
  3. From 1 and 2 we get there are at least two things existing now.
  4. Therefore things exist now.
 
One simple example would be any subsystem of an quantum entangled state. Such would always be in a mixed state if the subsystem is itself entangled.
A mixed states forms and define a whole state function. There is only one wave function, isn’t it?
 
If I may take a Moorean slant on this.
  1. Now here is one hand.
  2. Now here is another.
  3. From 1 and 2 we get there are at least two things existing now.
  4. Therefore things exist now.
Could you please elaborate. I don’t understand what you mean with “Now here is one hand” and “ow here is another”.
 
From God’s point of view, past (P), present (N) and future (F) exist at all times.

If you represented all of this universe’s history (Universal Set (U)) as a rectangle for convenience sake, with P on the left and F on the right, then the state N would simply be a line moving across the rectangle from left to right.

All you could say is that of the Universal Set (U), P + F = U, with P gradually increasing and F gradually diminishing, with the boundary being a moving line (“line” being defined in the real sense ie. length but no thickness).

As for nothing existing “now”, I’m having trouble grasping that as I sit here typing at the computer “now”.
 
From God’s point of view, past (P), present (N) and future (F) exist at all times.
From God point of view P, N and F exist with the difference that nothing exists at the moment now hence otherwise F could not be created.
If you represented all of this universe’s history (Universal Set (U)) as a rectangle for convenience sake, with P on the left and F on the right, then the state N would simply be a line moving across the rectangle from left to right.
I understand that but there is place for consciousness in this picture. If you accept any change as a triangle, then P is left node, future is right node and now is the moment of experience which ontologically exist in consciousness, namely top node. Hence, we embed consciousness as well.
All you could say is that of the Universal Set (U), P + F = U, with P gradually increasing and F gradually diminishing, with the boundary being a moving line (“line” being defined in the real sense ie. length but no thickness).
Where does lie consciousness in this picture?
As for nothing existing “now”, I’m having trouble grasping that as I sit here typing at the computer “now”.
Do you have freedom to create an opportunity in future? How could you if now casually define future? How now could exist if you have the power to do anything in future?
 
From God point of view P, N and F exist with the difference that nothing exists at the moment now hence otherwise F could not be created.

I understand that but there is place for consciousness in this picture. If you accept any change as a triangle, then P is left node, future is right node and now is the moment of experience which ontologically exist in consciousness, namely top node. Hence, we embed consciousness as well.

Where does lie consciousness in this picture?

Do you have freedom to create an opportunity in future? How could you if now casually define future? How now could exist if you have the power to do anything in future?
As far as I’m concerned, God sees the past, present and future regardless of our “consciousness”, which is just another way of saying that we can make decisions that can affect the future.

However He sees the decisions we take, and the future consequences that flow from that. Yet somehow he subtly interferes from time to time.

I’ve told this story before, but the night my father died, he appeared in my room. During the ensuing discussion he exclaimed at one point, “I always was doomed! I didn’t really have any choice!” I argued back, saying “That can’t be right!” (and I was an atheist at the time too). He replied, “Oh, it’s right all right, you can see that from here.” And later he admitted “I was WILLING!” (to do the cruel stupid things that condemned him).

That was in January 1979.

Circa late 2005, I was driving a cab part time at night. One night I was in a suburb called Nundah, and happened to be near the street where my father died. He died at Unit No. X, Y Rivington Street, Nundah.

Now there were other things he said that I wonder about, so I asked for a “sign” that it really was him, and that the things he said were accurate. I got back this feeling that I ought to know better than to ask for a “sign” ("… a wicked and adulterous generation wants signs …"), but I persevered anyway.

Now I don’t think it was that night, but the next cab shift I was on (probably two da ys later) when I pulled up to the Queen Street rank in Brisbane. I waited my turn, and eventually a bloke came wandering up, swaying a little bit, hopped in the back, and just said, "Nundah!’

I replied, “Whereabouts in Nundah?” He answered, “Just drive. I’ll tell you where to go.”

So off we went, turned here and there, and finished up at No. (Y-1) Rivington Street, Nundah, directly opposite the very unit where my father died.

I even said to the bloke, “Hmph! That’s where my father died!” He didn’t seem to find it a topic he wanted to pursue as an item of conversation with a cabbie (funny that), paid the fare, and went home.

But as far as I was concerned I got my “sign”. Since most fares are within a ten kilometre radius, there were hundreds of thousands of other places we could have gone. Then there was the almost peremptory way he spoke - “Just drive! I’ll tell you where to go!”

Now, in view of my father’s comment, “I always was doomed, I didn’t really have any choice!” and my experience of getting a “sign” which took me right back to the house directly opposite where he died, it’s obvious to me God can very subtly do things despite our “free will”.

For to get that sign, God had to take into account my choices, radio jobs, other traffic, other cabs, traffic lights, the time this bloke wanted to leave the pub, the queue at the rank, my arrival and departure times, and all the rest.

Of course it could have been sheer coincidence, but I’ve had far too many spiritual experiences to believe that for a single minute.

Hence God sees the future. He may well have seen me asking for a “sign” one night in a cab in Nundah before time began, and had His response ready before time began.

But I’m still responsible for my choices - did I drive the cab safely? Was I courteous to passengers? Did I run any red lights? Did I give the correct change? Did I try to rip the customer off? Did I wait my turn at the rank?

So even if He sees them, and sometimes interferes, we still have free will, or what you call “Consciousness”.
 
Lets consider a system being in state P (past). This state can only cause one state F (future) and nothing exist as a state at the moment N (now).

Facts:

A) Existence of one state at each moment is necessary and sufficient to cause another state
B) Two states cannot coexist
C) Awareness of a state is necessary for the causation and it happened at the moment (now)

Proof of (A):
  1. Lets assume that P exist
  2. We can conclude P is necessary for F to exist
  3. Moreover if only P causes F then N cannot exist since its existence has some causal effect on F
Proof of (B):
B is obvious.

Proof of (C):
  1. Lets assume a system is in state of S
  2. Lets assume that S causes S’
  3. From (B) we can deduce that S should be annihilated before S’
  4. This is problematic S cannot exist and exist not unless the awareness of state S exist in consciousness after annihilation of S
  5. The awareness of S is enough to cause S’ in later stage
From this we can conclude that we a sequence of existence, experience, existence…

Conclusion:
From (A) and (B), we can conclude that nothing exists at the moment of experience so called now.
You exist now, I exist now and we know it:D.

Linus2nd
 
Lets consider a system being in state P (past). This state can only cause one state F (future) and nothing exist as a state at the moment N (now).

Facts:

A) Existence of one state (cause?) at each moment is necessary and sufficient to cause another state (effect?)
B) Two states cannot coexist ( past is not the same as the present, granted, but why can’t cause and effect be concurrent? My typing on a keyboard causes pixel ink on my screen as I type.)
Awareness of a state is necessary for the causation and it happened at the moment (now).
Well, I will sleep shortly, guess I will need to be aware to cause my breathing.
 
Well, I will sleep shortly, guess I will need to be aware to cause my breathing.
Cause and effect cannot be concurrent since cause does exist in past whereas effect does exist in future.
 
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