Noticed these things at mass. Abuses?

[Ziggamafu]

Just wondering if these things are okay at mass. If they normally are not, is there some kind of loop-hole that the USCCB gives for parishes to “get away” with them?

1. Does the guy carrying the cross up to the altar in procession have to be an acolyte? Does he have to wear special vestments? I saw a guy who looked to be a lay-person wearing regular lay-cloths.
2. Can a parish use altar girls casually and at any time? I’ve been told that altar girls may only be used when no boys are available. I saw only altar girls at this place.
3. Can a parish singing both the Gloria and the Agnus Dei as a responsorial, with the worship director singing most of it solo? I thought the whole congregation had to say all of it.
4. Is bowing during the “He came down from Heaven” line in the creed absolutely binding? I didn’t see anyone bow at this place.

 

[trth_skr]

Just wondering if these things are okay at mass. If they normally are not, is there some kind of loop-hole that the USCCB gives for parishes to “get away” with them?

…
2. Can a parish use altar girls casually and at any time? I’ve been told that altar girls may only be used when no boys are available. I saw only altar girls at this place.

…

I will only comment on #2, since I do not know about the others (they seem somewhat minor).

JPII started out against the idea of female altar servers. I believe in 1980 he stated they would never be. In 1983 he revised the 1917 Code of Canon Law. Some people argued that the section regarding altar servers technically did not completely exlcude female altar servers. After some pushing he agreed that technically it did not. Immediately Amercian parishes filled with female altar servers. I think this is best referred to a Americanism.

At this point, technically female altar servers are allowed. I believe it is supposed to be in cases where males are not available, but even this may have been papered over.

I have been to NO masses in France (4), Germany (1), Belgium (1), Guatemala (a few), and Korea (1) and have never seen a female altar server in these places. I am not saying they do not exist, as my sample is pretty small, and these were mostly (but not exclusively) at cathedrals.

Note that Benedict XVI recently did not renew the US exclusion to allow Eucharistic ministers to cleanse the vessels used for Blood. His suggestion was if the attendance was to great, then skip the Blood and only distribute the Body. Communion under both kinds as standard was another American arm twister.

We may see some true reform of the liturgy under Benedict XVI.

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com

 

[Fidelis]

**4. Is bowing during the “He came down from Heaven” line in the creed absolutely binding? I didn’t see anyone bow at this place.**I don’t know if it is binding in the sense that it is a sin not to do it, but it is included in the approved text for the Order of Mass:

For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven:
[bow during the next two lines:]

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

Just wondering if these things are okay at mass. If they normally are not, is there some kind of loop-hole that the USCCB gives for parishes to “get away” with them?

1. Does the guy carrying the cross up to the altar in procession have to be an acolyte? Does he have to wear special vestments? I saw a guy who looked to be a lay-person wearing regular lay-cloths.
2. Can a parish use altar girls casually and at any time? I’ve been told that altar girls may only be used when no boys are available. I saw only altar girls at this place.
3. Can a parish singing both the Gloria and the Agnus Dei as a responsorial, with the worship director singing most of it solo? I thought the whole congregation had to say all of it.
4. Is bowing during the “He came down from Heaven” line in the creed absolutely binding? I didn’t see anyone bow at this place.

Liturgy goes by norms as well as prescribed rules. Except for 3 I would say that most of the practises you describe are undesireable. However if they have become accepted in your part of the world, then the parish priest cannot be blamed personally for following a precedent. However it is may be a reasonable idea to try to get the bishop to clamp down on them. In 2, in particular, the practise seems to be having an unintended and unforeseen effect, which is that boys become excluded from serving.

 

[Katie1723]

It makes me wonder why you go to mass. I mean if you are picking apart everything, how are you paying attention to what’s really happening?
Kathy

 

[childofmary1143]

It makes me wonder why you go to mass. I mean if you are picking apart everything, how are you paying attention to what’s really happening?
Kathy

How dare you judge Ziggamafu like that. Just because he observes what he perceives to be (and in some cases are) liturgical abuses you dare to judge him like that and his intentions in going to mass. You should be ashamed of yourself

 

[Katie1723]

All I am saying is that when we pick something apart, we tend to miss what something is really about. Surely, if there are genuine “abuses” they need to be brought to the “proper” persons attention. Question, if you must, but don’t assume because something is not what you think it should be, that it is indeed improper. After all, no one of us is perfect.
Kathy

 

[AlexV]

I agree that liturgical nitpickers get tedious and annoying. The Novus Ordo Missae allows so many options, has so many layers of rubrics (universal, country, diocese), operates typically under so many indults (vernacular, communion in the hand, altar girls, the music repertoire whatever), that one really shouldn’t be surprised if there are anomalies.