Novus Ordo in Latin

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Vico said:
I lived through it. Altar rails were eliminated at some churches. New musical forms were introduced: I played guitar at the Folk Mass. This is what I mean.
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Changes in musical forms are nothing new. Look at the current Graduale Romanum and the subtitle below each Mass (e.g. Mass XI, “Orbis Factor”). At one time Kyries were troped, a musical style common in the Eastern Churches but not Roman. The words of Orbis Factor :
  1. Orbis factor rex aeterne, eleison (Creator of the world, Eternal King, have mercy on us)
  2. Pietatis fons immense, eleison
  3. Noxas omnes nostras pelle, eleison
  4. Christe qui lux es mundi dator vitae, eleison
  5. Arte laesos daemonis intuere, eleison
  6. Conservans te credentes confirmansque, eleison
  7. Patrem tuum teque flamen utrorumque, eleison
  8. Deum scimus unum atque trinum esse, eleison
  9. Clemens nobis adsis paraclite ut vivamus in te, eleison.
Now one of the formulas given for the Penitential Rite is a trope (from my French Missal translated to English… not the “official” translation but mine!):

Lord Jesus, sent by the Father to heal and save men, have mercy on us… etc.

In the medieval Church tropes were common throughout the Mass. Now it is returned into fashion somewhat since Vatican II for the Kyrie and the Agnus Dei is often (though not licitly) troped in today’s Church.

The liturgy has always been a dynamic, living thing.
 
stephraim said:
I prefer ad orientem too. I just remember reading a response from the CDWDS where they uses the term ad apsidem (I suppose because it’s less literal about the east). Still, in light of tradition and theology, I completely agree with you and use ad orientem as well.

No matter what it’s called, though, I wish the posture was assumed more often by Roman Rite priests. 😦
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Even nicer would be if the Maronites were to jettison the Novus Ordo-inspired neo-latinization called versus populum, and restore ad orientem to its rightful place, but I digress.

Anyway, yes, the more ad orientem the better. 🙂 I’ve said many times that it’s really the single most important element of the “reform of the reform.” Once that hurdle is past, I think the rest of the “reform of the reform” will flow organically.
 
malphono said:
Anyway, yes, the more ad orientem the better. 🙂 I’ve said many times that it’s really the single most important element of the “reform of the reform.” Once that hurdle is past, I think the rest of the “reform of the reform” will flow organically.
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I completely agree.
 
OraLabora said:
Changes in musical forms are nothing new. Look at the current Graduale Romanum and the subtitle below each Mass (e.g. Mass XI, “Orbis Factor”). At one time Kyries were troped, a musical style common in the Eastern Churches but not Roman. The words of Orbis Factor :
  1. Orbis factor rex aeterne, eleison (Creator of the world, Eternal King, have mercy on us)
  2. Pietatis fons immense, eleison
  3. Noxas omnes nostras pelle, eleison
  4. Christe qui lux es mundi dator vitae, eleison
  5. Arte laesos daemonis intuere, eleison
  6. Conservans te credentes confirmansque, eleison
  7. Patrem tuum teque flamen utrorumque, eleison
  8. Deum scimus unum atque trinum esse, eleison
  9. Clemens nobis adsis paraclite ut vivamus in te, eleison.
Now one of the formulas given for the Penitential Rite is a trope (from my French Missal translated to English… not the “official” translation but mine!):

Lord Jesus, sent by the Father to heal and save men, have mercy on us… etc.

In the medieval Church tropes were common throughout the Mass. Now it is returned into fashion somewhat since Vatican II for the Kyrie and the Agnus Dei is often (though not licitly) troped in today’s Church.

The liturgy has always been a dynamic, living thing.
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That is certainly true. Is that the 1961 Graduale Romanum or current 1974? In any case Mass XI is currently proposed for Sundays in Ordinary Time. One pastor I know sings the Feasts in Gregorian Chant in English in the ordinary form.

Notice in a previous post here that the Tridentine mass was modified in some way about every 30 years. Ah, I remember those days when I was an altar boy saying the Mass in Latin, and then we changed to English Mass (1965) with the Latin Canon, and then in 1967 the Canon was also in English. That was a time of rapid changes, and then soon after that altar boys were optional, so that was the end of my altar boy duties.
 
Vico said:
That is certainly true. Is that the 1961 Graduale Romanum or current 1974? In any case Mass XI is currently proposed for Sundays in Ordinary Time. One pastor I know sings the Feasts in Gregorian Chant in English in the ordinary form.

Notice in a previous post here that the Tridentine mass was modified in some way about every 30 years. Ah, I remember those days when I was an altar boy saying the Mass in Latin, and then we changed to English Mass (1965) with the Latin Canon, and then in 1967 the Canon was also in English. That was a time of rapid changes, and then soon after that altar boys were optional, so that was the end of my altar boy duties.
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The current Graduale Romanum (note only the title remains, not the tropes). Look up the Graduel d’Aliénor de Bretagne on Youtube, you can hear the trope sung.
 
I know it is convenient short hand to use “tridentine”, but it gives an inaccurate impression. Until the 1960’s there was simply the Roman Rite which was that traditional form of the liturgy celebrated by the Roman Church. Over the centuries there was some development and also minor alterations, but before the reforms of 1955 the Rite of Mass in all its particulars was more or less the same as it was in the 13nth Century.

Catholics who lived anytime from the High Middle Ages down to the 1950’s would have noticed very little change in the Mass itself, but is is true to say that from 1955 to 1970 the changes were constant.

First came the changes in the Holy Week ceremonies and the suppressions and reclassifications of feasts, which admittedly would have been more noticeable to the clergy than the laity, and then in the period from 1965 onwards the radical pruning away of so much of the Ordinary, and the introduction of new Eucharistic prayers, the Prayer of the Faithful etc, till finally the New Rite was introduced in 1969.

All that said, however, the most radical aspects of the change, such as the altar as table, mass invariably said facing the people, standing communion and communion in the hand, and the general desacralization were things that were never ordered by the official documents. They constitute rather a kind of ‘metaliturgy’ in the same way that we have had a kind of “metacouncil”. That is to say an ideology was imposed which distorted both the real teachings of Vatican II and the real liturgical changes to adapt both to the mentality of the 1960’s.

Fortunately, this is now slowly coming to an end and we are gradually returning to what the Holy Father calls a hermeneutic of continuity rather than one of deliberate rupture with the Church’s tradition.
 
Hadrianus said:
I know it is convenient short hand to use “tridentine”, but it gives an inaccurate impression. Until the 1960’s there was simply the Roman Rite which was that traditional form of the liturgy celebrated by the Roman Church. Over the centuries there was some development and also minor alterations, but before the reforms of 1955 the Rite of Mass in all its particulars was more or less the same as it was in the 13nth Century.

Catholics who lived anytime from the High Middle Ages down to the 1950’s would have noticed very little change in the Mass itself, but is is true to say that from 1955 to 1970 the changes were constant.

…
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Rephrase:

1470-1570 14 printed editions with variations Milan, Venice, Paris and Lyon
1481-1738 16 printed editions Parisian Missal

The Latin language Missale Romanum editio typica, since the Council of Trent:
1570 Pope Pius V
1604 Pope Clement VII
1634 Pope Urban VII
1884 Pope Leo XIII
1920 Pope Benedict XV
1962 Pope John XXIII
Missale Romanum, Ordinary Form, Latin language:
1969 Pope Paul VI (typical edition)
1975 Pope Paul VI (second typical edition)
2002 Pope Benedict XVI (third typical edition)
2008 Pope Benedict XVI (third typical edition emended)
 
Thanks for the list. There were actually quite a few more editions as each time new saints were added it was necessary to alter the calendar and also in some cases write new propers.
Also the revision of the Vulgate required a new edition with the purified Latin text being adopted, under Urban VIII, I believe.

The very last edition of the Missale Romanum as codified by Pius V was that of 1965, it simplified many of the rubrics and suppressed the Last Gospel, and the psalm Judica Me
as in a requiem mass. Some liturgists, notably Klaus Gamber argued that it corresponded exactly to what the Fathers of Vatican II intended.

The Parisian Missal is a Neo-Gallican variant of the Roman Rite. The edition of 1738 is the most significant one and represents a moralising tendency in the texts. The final edition was 1830. The Gallican bishops claimed that they had the privilege of revising their own liturgical books, though this was never endorsed by Rome.
 
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