Now is the time

[Ruth_Catherine]

Having read Puzzleannie’s comment, I am not so sure it was rude, but rather terse. This issue has been beaten to death by a significantly small and insistent group that appears to take Fatima revelation to the level of, if not dogma, something akin to it. And as I noted in my post previously, they go at it as if God could not bring about the conversion of Russia unless some (magical) formula were said in the exact word order and with the exact number of people joining in.

John Paul 2 was neither a fool nor an illiterate; he had 2 Ph.D.'s and was majorly instrumental in getting the Vatican turned around about the revelations to Sister Faustina (Divine Mercy). He had a great devotion to Mary, and both he and the last visionary have said that the Consecration of Russia occurred as requested by Our Lady. And yet there remain the doubting Thomases who insist that it did not follow the proper formula, never mind that the government of Russia came crashing down and Communism was dealt a massive blow. If he said that the consecration he did was done and was adequate, who are we going to believe - the Pope or some conspiratorialists who have no standing at all? And if that statement of his is backed by the one remaining visionary - who is one of the three who actually heard what Mary had to say - who are we to believe - the visionary, or those with no standing to comment?

The very bottom line issue from Fatima is the same one that the Gospels give us - a call to metanoia - a turning away from sin and towards God; a living out of the Good News that He is alive! He is risen! We don’t need to believe in Fatima or even read what it had to say; we need to follow the Gospel. That is sufficient to salvation, and this fascination with mystery, with miracles, with the extraordinary and this insistence that the Pope has not done something at best borders on religious hysteria. God gave us His promise in Christ and that is all we need. Can events be changed through the power of prayer? Read what the Gospels tell us - of course it can. Do we have to follow an exact formula to accomplish something? Nothing in the Gospels says that we do (that is - a specific prayer format, or specific words); and this insistence that the formula of Fatima was not followed correctly at best borders on the issue of controlling God. At best. It is an unhealthy fascination that needs to come to closure.

Can the message of Fatima be relevant today to today’s Catholics? Yes, it can, if one does not treat it as some magic formula by which one can control God.

Terse isn’t always necessary either and can be rude. It’s sometimes a little frightening to post anything on some of these forums because people get very brave with their words behind a computer, forgetting this is a Christian website. Probably myself included.

I disagree with you that we do not need to read Fatima or believe in Fatima. Fatima is real.
Here is what Pope Benedict said about Fatima when vising there and speaking to the bishops:

I thank God for giving me this occasion to meet all of you here at the Shrine of Fatima, the spiritual heart of Portugal, where multitudes of pilgrims from all over the world come looking to discover or to reinforce their certainty in the truths of Heaven. Among them has come from Rome the Successor of Peter, accepting the oft-repeated invitations and moved by a debt of gratitude to the Virgin Mary,who herself transmitted to her seers and pilgrims an intense love for the Holy Father which has borne fruit in a great multitude which prays, with Jesus as its guide:

and again:

I entrust all of you to Our Lady of Fatima, and I ask her to sustain you with her maternal care amid the challenges which you face, so that you will be promoters of a culture and a spirituality of charity, peace, hope and justice, faith and service.

I agree with you we need to read the Gospels, the Bible everyday but we also need to take seriously Our Lady’s visits and listen to her loving messages.

One of the first people that brought me back to the Catholic church was Our Lady of Guadalupe. Granted I wasn’t there when she spoke to Juan Diego but her message is alive and well for me and everyone else today. She is our mother.

As the Monsignor at the mass I attended this morning said, she will always lead you to her son. That is what Fatima is about. She is asking us to pray the rosary every day and that is what the OP is talking about. He is looking around and seeing what is happening in the world and reminding us we need to pray. I know as a Catholic there isn’t a rapture but it is promoted alot in the Christian culture that many people are hearing and believing it. They need instruction not to be told they can’t comment.

Miracles do still happen.

And by the way, what do you mean the Gospel is sufficient for salvation?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I disagree with you that we do not need to read Fatima or believe in Fatima. Fatima is real.

Real or not, that does not make it a part of the Deposit of Faith in which all Catholics are required to believe. Such has always been the status of private revelations.

 

[Ruth_Catherine]

Real or not, that does not make it a part of the Deposit of Faith in which all Catholics are required to believe. Such has always been the status of private revelations.

That is true, you do not need to read or believe and if one does they should be cautious, discerning and obedient to Church teaching but it is also important to be open to private revelation, especially if they have been approved by the magisterium. Authentic revelations can be edifying to Catholics, drawing you closer to the Lord.

I would always encourage to follow what the magesterium teaches with each private revelation.

 

[otjm]

Terse isn’t always necessary either and can be rude. It’s sometimes a little frightening to post anything on some of these forums because people get very brave with their words behind a computer, forgetting this is a Christian website. Probably myself included.

I would agree there. tone of voice is impossible to convey accurately online.

I disagree with you that we do not need to read Fatima or believe in Fatima. Fatima is real.
Here is what Pope Benedict said about Fatima when vising there and speaking to the bishops:

Then you would disagree with the Church. Fatima is private revelation; nothing in private revelation can provide us anything in Faith and Morals that Scripture has not already given us. One of the basics of Faith is that Revelation stopped with the death of the last of the Apostles. As to your quotes from the Pope: he said nothing other than what the Church has already said: people can benefit from private revelation. He did not say they need private revelation; only that good can come from it.

I agree with you we need to read the Gospels, the Bible everyday but we also need to take seriously Our Lady’s visits and listen to her loving messages.

There are not, however, any messages in private revelation that are not, in their essence, contained in Scripture.

Miracles do still happen.

I have experienced miracles in my lifetime… That, however, has nothing to do with my comments.

And by the way, what do you mean the Gospel is sufficient for salvation?

See my comments above. Revelation with a capital “R” stopped with the last of the Apostles. there have been private revelations and miracles ever since. they can assist the faithful in their Faith. However, in my lifetime - I am a baby boomer - I ahve seen untold numbers of people so fascinated and so caught up in visions and visionaries, in fear and in blind hope that some formula has been given that will make all right and proper, that I have a great concern that some - not all, but definitely some - get to a point of unhealthy involvement to the point that one cannot distinguish their understanding of the revelation from some sort of magic; something that if just enough people do in just the exact way, we can control God. I know and believe that God answers prayers; but there is a line beyond which I perceive an unhealthy attachment to a specific private revelation.

I am not anti-private revelation. I personally think that the tilma is one of the more interesting, impactful and clear signs (which is what a miracle is) that we have in the western hemisphere. some of the research which has been done on it should leave one speechless in awe. But the Mass is my main focus, not private devotion.

 

[Ruth_Catherine]

I would agree there. tone of voice is impossible to convey accurately online.

Then you would disagree with the Church. Fatima is private revelation; nothing in private revelation can provide us anything in Faith and Morals that Scripture has not already given us. One of the basics of Faith is that Revelation stopped with the death of the last of the Apostles. As to your quotes from the Pope: he said nothing other than what the Church has already said: people can benefit from private revelation. He did not say they need private revelation; only that good can come from it…

I totally do not disagree with the Church. I understand completely with what you are saying as I have studied this before. The Church does not require us to believe in private revelation but they encourage us to listen and believe in those private revelations that have been approved by the Church. We can listen and study those approved, though we do not have to.

There are not, however, any messages in private revelation that are not, in their essence, contained in Scripture…

True, I totally agree but there are those who choose to read and study private revelation. There is no reason why one cannot study scripture and approved private revelation.

I have experienced miracles in my lifetime… That, however, has nothing to do with my comments…

I’m sorry, I thought I understood you to say one does not need to get caught up in miracles. Though they do not need to be ones main focus, they certainly can be read and told of.

See my comments above. Revelation with a capital “R” stopped with the last of the Apostles. there have been private revelations and miracles ever since. they can assist the faithful in their Faith. However, in my lifetime - I am a baby boomer - I ahve seen untold numbers of people so fascinated and so caught up in visions and visionaries, in fear and in blind hope that some formula has been given that will make all right and proper, that I have a great concern that some - not all, but definitely some - get to a point of unhealthy involvement to the point that one cannot distinguish their understanding of the revelation from some sort of magic; something that if just enough people do in just the exact way, we can control God. I know and believe that God answers prayers; but there is a line beyond which I perceive an unhealthy attachment to a specific private revelation…

I’m not disagreeing with this. I agree. One can carry things too far.

I am not anti-private revelation. I personally think that the tilma is one of the more interesting, impactful and clear signs (which is what a miracle is) that we have in the western hemisphere. some of the research which has been done on it should leave one speechless in awe. But the Mass is my main focus, not private devotion.

The Mass should be everyone’s main focus and it is mine but including other things such as the Rosary are excellent ways to be in prayer also and since the Church does encourage us to listen to approved private revelation we have that choice.

The reason I asked what you meant when you said the “gospels are sufficient for salvation”, is because I heard that very phrase alot during my years in the protestant church. It sounds as though you are saying the Bible sufficient for salvation. I’m sure that is not what you meant.

 

[johnthebaptist1]

I will always beleive in thet the Blessed Mother who told the childern of “FATIMA”,that only threw Praying for, peaceand doing Penance shall things change ,she has said many times,say the Rosary,for the savations of the world and too save sinners from going too Hell.
She also told Sister Lucy the thrid child of 'F’atima " that she wishes that the POPE
AND all the bishops,Concercreted Russia to my Immaculate Herat,
This has NOT happen,because they are afraid,that Russia will not allow this, so the Pope

 

[johnthebaptist1]

To all,
OUR LADY,said to the childern of “FATMIA”, to pray for sinners,and for world Peace,that
you will suffer much,but you will go to Heaven,
She also told SISTER LUCY that she want the POPE,BISHOPS ,TO CONSECRATED
RUSSIA to her Immucalate HEART.But because they were afriad that RUSSIA,won,t
allow it, the Pope, Consecrated the whole world. Sister Lucy was not allow to speak,at
this special day, in fact she was taken away, so she wouldn,t say ,what she wanted to say.We now that their is another part of the letter that she wrote the final part, but it is said it is lock up in t,he Vaticion Vault.I hope that some day some POPE will get the courge to read that last part of the letter.so that we can knoe the truth.

                                               GOD BLESS 

                                                 :gopray:

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

To all,
OUR LADY,said to the childern of “FATMIA”, to pray for sinners,and for world Peace,that
you will suffer much,but you will go to Heaven,
She also told SISTER LUCY that she want the POPE,BISHOPS ,TO CONSECRATED
RUSSIA to her Immucalate HEART.But because they were afriad that RUSSIA,won,t
allow it, the Pope, Consecrated the whole world. Sister Lucy was not allow to speak,at
this special day, in fact she was taken away, so she wouldn,t say ,what she wanted to say.We now that their is another part of the letter that she wrote the final part, but it is said it is lock up in t,he Vaticion Vault.I hope that some day some POPE will get the courge to read that last part of the letter.so that we can knoe the truth.

                                               GOD BLESS 

                                                 :gopray:

See post #33.

 

[archangel04]

can we drop the subject already?

 

[Monica4316]

I personally believe in the Fatima messages…

 

[archangel04]

I personally believe in the Fatima messages…

I think most of us do, it’s the conspiracies that most of us are getting bored and tired with.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I personally believe in the Fatima messages…

It doesn’t mean anything less if you simply stuck to the guidance of public revelation.

I think most of us do, it’s the conspiracies that most of us are getting bored and tired with.

Ditto.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Yes my people, The time is now,As people of God,we must start realizsing,that the things
happing in the world, War, Sex, Drugs,are all signs of people falling away from God,And we as people of God ,should realize,that all this natural distruction,are from God ,telling us
too change our ways. But today people are worrey about Greed,and doing that pleases them,and not God.wants But it,s God that provides the thing we have, even if we work for them
God can take everthing away from us, threw mother nature, and we see it all the time,on TV,or we read about it.God wants us to trun back too loving his son Jesus,and not get attach to matterial things.
OUR LADY has been asking us ,too say the ROSARY,which could save this world .
But the Pope and all the Bishops must Concercarted Russia To OUR Lady than this world
would have peace. And Jesus even said “ONLYt wellthrew Concercarting Russia to my mother
well peace happen”. If not than we have no hope,and things well get worst.

May GOD open the eyes of others. Or the Rapure will come sooner. For we are only in the being of the end. For we the Faithful,see before are eyes,what is happing.

Rapture!!! what is that?

Why do you listen to those whom the Word of God was not given? These people don’t understand the Word of God. Listen to what the Church is saying and don’t waist your time listen to people outside the Church.