Nun reads the Gospel at retreats??

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SMHW said:
However that has nothing to do with whether or not a woman (or a lay man) may read the Gospel on a retreat.
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Nope it doesn’t but that’s the way the conversation turned. Id be glad to return to the topic.
 
The only real issue here might be the dialogue.

“The Lord be with you.”
“And with your spirit.”
“Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ.”

Those are supposed to be reserved to the ordained. Specifically, when the people respond, “and with your spirit” it is an acknowledgement of the mark of Holy Orders; “Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ” is acknowledging the minister as in persona Christi.

Otherwise, I see no issue here, and I certainly don’t think it’s something to write the Bishop or other superior about if it was an isolated occurrence.
 
Cor_ad_Cor said:
The only real issue here might be the dialogue.

“The Lord be with you.”
“And with your spirit.”
“Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ.”

Those are supposed to be reserved to the ordained. Specifically, when the people respond, “and with your spirit” it is an acknowledgement of the mark of Holy Orders; “Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ” is acknowledging the minister as in persona Christi.
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While I am aware that the dialog before the Gospel should be reserved to to occasions where an ordained person will be the reader, I have never heard that "Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ was directed to Christ through the minister.
 
I see nothing wrong with it either.

We should utilize our nuns and sisters more in our Church.

Hoping you’re not letting this issue take away all you received at your recent retreat. Would be such a shame. 😦
 
madtom said:
I think one of the problems with the Church is not having more women in positions of authority, and I don’t mean as priests. I enjoy watching Fr. Jonathan Morris who appears regularly on Fox News, and he once said that no, women cannot be priests and the Church should not change that position, but there is no reason why a woman can’t be the boss of priests, and I thought that was so true. Anyway, I recall that interview because I experienced something similar this past Ash Wednesday. The short service before the administering of ashes was conducted entirely by the nun who works at our Church. She led us in prayer and read the gospel, and I felt that same awkwardeness wondering, do I say “Praise to you Lord Jesus Christ?” Most did, but there was definite hesitation. And it was just weird seeing her up on the altar. But I think that was just because we’re not used to it, not because there’s anything wrong with it. In fact, I think it was great.
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There were some sister in my school,growing up who I am pretty sure were the boss of the priests…at least they sure acted like they were!😃
 
eightydeuce82 said:
We have 60 years of data to show what has happened. Before Vatican Council II, Catholic men frequented the Sacraments, took family responsibilities seriously and filled the seminaries. After Vatican Council II, the churches emptied, the divorce rate skyrocketed, and the sacristy was overrun with women. A kind of effeminate man attracted by the New Theology entered the seminaries, and the virile ethos of the Church grew fainter and fainter. It is no wonder not only men, but also many women, are leaving the Catholic Church today or no longer assist at Sunday Mass. Huston we have a problem.
…
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I dunno. I think you’re overemphasizing the impact of VC2 on society as a whole. We also had the Vietnam War, the Great Society, Woodstock, the Beatles, the Cold War, huge increases in drug use…
 
on_the_hill said:
I dunno. I think you’re overemphasizing the impact of VC2 on society as a whole. We also had the Vietnam War, the Great Society, Woodstock, the Beatles, the Cold War, huge increases in drug use…
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Inclined to agree.

Not to mention the still-fresh wounds of WWII.

If one looks at what happened with mainstream Protestant churches in that period, it becomes obvious that they had the same problems. So it can’t all be blamed on VII. The argument that VII was responsible just because the declined seemed to follow is the Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
 
SMHW said:
Actually what I found troubling was the sister saying, “The Lord be with you.”
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That was my concern as well.

Since this was not a Mass, there should not have been an attempt to conduct the Gospel introducorty.

And the response “And with your Spirit” was also troubling. The Sister was clearly NOT in Holy Orders.
 
eightydeuce82 said:
I borrowed some of this from a website btw…
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So glad you added this line to reassure us that everything you wrote is accurate. Afterall, if it’s on the internet, it has to be true. 😉

Seriously, I recommend that you return it back to that website ASAP.
 
eightydeuce82 said:
Let me try to explain this with out sounding all anti VATII lol!

In the United States today, 45 years after Vatican II, 31,000 lay persons plan liturgies, direct the music groups, schedule the lectors and run the education programs for adults, engaged couples and children; four-fifths of these ecclesial ministers are women. Before Vatican II, most of those jobs did not exist; less than 1 % of these jobs were filled by lay people. Before Vatican II the average parish lay woman were most likely to be found in the Altar Society or Holy Name Society. Today, almost 50 % of all administrative positions in dioceses are held by women.

Quite correctly stated. Almost every parish across the country uses scores of lay Eucharistic and song ministers, lectors, and altar servers for its various Masses. Then, there are the liturgists, youth ministers, social concerns directors, adult education coordinators and other professional pastoral positions that never existed before Vatican II. Lay ministers make most of the pastoral visits to the sick and prisoners. And roughly 80 % of these positions are held by women. The NPLC predicts that the overall pattern indicates the bulk of positions will continue to be filled by women

So what’s the outcome? What are the fruits? Don’t get me wrong women have a very strong position in the church and they always have from the beginning. I don’t want to sound anti-woman but the fruits of all this “change” is clearly apparent. We have 60 years of data to show what has happened. Before Vatican Council II, Catholic men frequented the Sacraments, took family responsibilities seriously and filled the seminaries. After Vatican Council II, the churches emptied, the divorce rate skyrocketed, and the sacristy was overrun with women. A kind of effeminate man attracted by the New Theology entered the seminaries, and the virile ethos of the Church grew fainter and fainter. It is no wonder not only men, but also many women, are leaving the Catholic Church today or no longer assist at Sunday Mass. Huston we have a problem.
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You “don’t want to sound anti-woman” but you trace what’s wrong with the Church to women having a lower-level management role within it?
 
OraLabora said:
Inclined to agree.

Not to mention the still-fresh wounds of WWII.

If one looks at what happened with mainstream Protestant churches in that period, it becomes obvious that they had the same problems. So it can’t all be blamed on VII. The argument that VII was responsible just because the declined seemed to follow is the Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
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That’s exactly what happened the protestant mainstream church came to ours. I agree that not All can be blamed on VATII the culture changed quite a bit. However one must remember the church has survived through worse culture change and persecution and top that off with full heretical infiltration of the majority of bishops and came out fine. The 60s, WWII etc. certainly had an influence on the verbiage of the documents however it was not Dogmatic nor was it called to answer any heresy and it basically left everything in place pre-VATII. The church leaders certainly took it as a hay day. Either way the “spirit of VATII” was used in many ways to topple what once was…the effect? The worst situation in church history. We cant ignore that. Its simply history now. The statistics are the statistics. I don’t believe it was purely coincidence that the exact moment of downturn in belief, liturgical practice, vocation etc etc etc just happened to coincide with the council timing and events…It wasn’t just bad timing it is the fruit of the council which every pope since has indicated kicked off the issues even if they have gone with it.
 
StSentry83 said:
You “don’t want to sound anti-woman” but you trace what’s wrong with the Church to women having a lower-level management role within it?
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I trace the issues (some of them) there are many more to a general feminization of the church, clergy, etc. Women are awesome and certainly held one of the biggest roles in the church which was the education in the faith of the children in the home. How do you get much cooler than that?
 
felsguy said:
So glad you added this line to reassure us that everything you wrote is accurate. Afterall, if it’s on the internet, it has to be true. 😉

Seriously, I recommend that you return it back to that website ASAP.
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If you really think that that’s not accurate you obviously haven’t visited many churches. I haven’t been to one where there haven’t been a myriad of women all over the sanctuary, altar servers, liturgical boards, “extraordinary ministers” etc. I have a number of close friends who happen to be priests and deacons. Their views are pretty much exactly the same as mine and they certainly hold that the church has been feminized. Luckily the younger generation of priests coming out of seminary are more liturgically orthodox than the previous generation and are restoring these things to parishes across the world. In fact there are many Cardinals and arch bishops speaking on this very issue including Cardinal Burke.
 
eightydeuce82 said:
If you really think that that’s not accurate you obviously haven’t visited many churches. I haven’t been to one where there haven’t been a myriad of women all over the sanctuary, altar servers, liturgical boards, “extraordinary ministers” etc. I have a number of close friends who happen to be priests and deacons. Their views are pretty much exactly the same as mine and they certainly hold that the church has been feminized. Luckily the younger generation of priests coming out of seminary are more liturgically orthodox than the previous generation and are restoring these things to parishes across the world. In fact there are many Cardinals and arch bishops speaking on this very issue including Cardinal Burke.
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Agenda post much? Quit derailing the OP with your rants
 
eightydeuce82 said:
If you really think that that’s not accurate you obviously haven’t visited many churches. I haven’t been to one where there haven’t been a myriad of women all over the sanctuary, altar servers, liturgical boards, “extraordinary ministers” etc. I have a number of close friends who happen to be priests and deacons. Their views are pretty much exactly the same as mine and they certainly hold that the church has been feminized. Luckily the younger generation of priests coming out of seminary are more liturgically orthodox than the previous generation and are restoring these things to parishes across the world. In fact there are many Cardinals and arch bishops speaking on this very issue including Cardinal Burke.
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Do you think you could stop the agenda posting and derailing and get back to the OP’s question? Oh wait, it was answered early on that there is no problem with a nun reading the Gospel at a retreat outside of Mass. What on earth brought on your ranting? It’s against forum rules
 
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