Obstinate/Hardening of the Heart

[anrmenchaca47]

Ok, my hermanos and hermanas…

So I was thinking about the book of Exodus and remembered that God made the Pharaoh obstinate according to the NAB. The Douay-Rheims says that the Lord “hardened the heart of the Pharao…” Why did God do this every time he asked Moses to approach him to convince him to let his people go? I mean there are several instances through out Exodus. For example Exodus 9:34,35 reads “And Pharao seeing that the rain and the hail, and the thunders were ceased, increased his.And his heart was hardened, and it was made exceeding hard; neither did he let the children of Isreal go, as the Lord had commanded by the hand of Moses.”

Also, Exodus 9:12 reads “And the Lord hardened Pharao’s heart, and he hearkened not unto them, as the Lord had spoken to Moses.”

The way I view this is that God MADE Pharaoh’s heart hardened causing him to NOT let Moses take the “…children of Isreal…”

Why would God do this? Why would he make Pharaoh NOT let “…children of Isreal go…”?

Also, is it possible for God to do the same to us in terms of “hardening of our hearts?”

I hope I got my question across. Please help me understand this one because I feel that God has used me at times to be stubborn to prove a point.

 

[Bernadette173]

Ok, my hermanos and hermanas…

So I was thinking about the book of Exodus and remembered that God made the Pharaoh obstinate according to the NAB. The Douay-Rheims says that the Lord “hardened the heart of the Pharao…” Why did God do this every time he asked Moses to approach him to convince him to let his people go? I mean there are several instances through out Exodus. For example Exodus 9:34,35 reads “And Pharao seeing that the rain and the hail, and the thunders were ceased, increased his.And his heart was hardened, and it was made exceeding hard; neither did he let the children of Isreal go, as the Lord had commanded by the hand of Moses.”

Also, Exodus 9:12 reads “And the Lord hardened Pharao’s heart, and he hearkened not unto them, as the Lord had spoken to Moses.”

The way I view this is that God MADE Pharaoh’s heart hardened causing him to NOT let Moses take the “…children of Isreal…”

Why would God do this? Why would he make Pharaoh NOT let “…children of Isreal go…”?

Also, is it possible for God to do the same to us in terms of “hardening of our hearts?”

I hope I got my question across. Please help me understand this one because I feel that God has used me at times to be stubborn to prove a point.

God does not choose to make pharaoh’s heart hardened. Since the time of Adam God instilled into us free will to do what God asks of us or to turn away, and be obstinant of the right thing to do. Pharaoh’s heart was hardened because Pharaoh chose to disobey God and the command to let the ‘‘children of Israel go’’. People can choose to do right or wrong, it is not God who makes them do right or wrong. God gives us free will to obey Him or disobey Him.
Pharaoh was a very powerful leader to the Egyptians and was likened himself to a ‘‘King’’ of his time. To disobey a ‘‘king’’ is to be sentenced to death during those days. And out of the sin of pride and not wanting to be humiliated by Moses, Pharaoh disallowed whatever Moses was saying to be as fact or coming from God’s mind/tongue to Moses mouth/tongue.And therefore refused to let Moses take the jewish people from Egypt to the promised land.

also the devil is in the darkness in this that the temptations of making ones self likened to God are put into the hearts of men and women. Not by God, but by the devil. And those who turn away from God are being tempted by the devil.

 

[Gorgias]

God does not choose to make pharaoh’s heart hardened. Since the time of Adam God instilled into us free will to do what God asks of us or to turn away, and be obstinant of the right thing to do. Pharaoh’s heart was hardened because Pharaoh chose to disobey God and the command to let the ‘‘children of Israel go’’. People can choose to do right or wrong, it is not God who makes them do right or wrong. God gives us free will to obey Him or disobey Him.

See Exodus 7:3-4.

In the NAB: “Yet I will make Pharaoh so headstrong that, despite the many signs and wonders that I work in the land of Egypt, Pharaoh will not listen to you.”

D-R: “But I shall harden his heart, and shall multiply my signs and wonders in the land of Egypt. And he will not hear you.”

NewAdvent.org adds this comment by Bp. Challoner with respect to this passage: “not by being the efficient cause of his hardness of heart, but by permitting it; and by withdrawing grace from him, in punishment of his malice; which alone was the proper cause of his being hardened.”

 

[TheRealJuliane]

The way I understand it, is that God performed all those plagues and signs to show his people Israel that He was the Almighty God and it was time for them to leave slavery. He hardened the Pharaoh’s heart so his people would realize that God meant business and it was time to go. They weren’t so excited about leaving and even as they left, they were kind of freaking out and not wanting to follow Moses or the pillar of fire.

 

[dailey]

Great question. Looking forward to the responses…

 

[anrmenchaca47]

See Exodus 7:3-4.

In the NAB: “Yet I will make Pharaoh so headstrong that, despite the many signs and wonders that I work in the land of Egypt, Pharaoh will not listen to you.”

You know its funny…its after a while I finally see how the context of this verse sounds. In other words, God knew that Pharaoh would not listen, in which he insisted to Moses to keep trying. Makes alot more sense now. Thanks.

 

[Darryl1958]

Ok, my hermanos and hermanas…

So I was thinking about the book of Exodus and remembered that God made the Pharaoh obstinate according to the NAB. The Douay-Rheims says that the Lord “hardened the heart of the Pharao…” Why did God do this every time he asked Moses to approach him to convince him to let his people go? I mean there are several instances through out Exodus. For example Exodus 9:34,35 reads “And Pharao seeing that the rain and the hail, and the thunders were ceased, increased his.And his heart was hardened, and it was made exceeding hard; neither did he let the children of Isreal go, as the Lord had commanded by the hand of Moses.”

Also, Exodus 9:12 reads “And the Lord hardened Pharao’s heart, and he hearkened not unto them, as the Lord had spoken to Moses.”

The way I view this is that God MADE Pharaoh’s heart hardened causing him to NOT let Moses take the “…children of Isreal…”

Why would God do this? Why would he make Pharaoh NOT let “…children of Isreal go…”?

Also, is it possible for God to do the same to us in terms of “hardening of our hearts?”

I hope I got my question across. Please help me understand this one because I feel that God has used me at times to be stubborn to prove a point.

Rabbi David Forman did a very good job explaining this. I don’t think that his lecture is on line anymore, so I will have to give a rough sketch from memory.

First, understand that God didn’t need to have pharaoh’s permission. However the point he was trying to make is that there was one God, and that would be him. Pharaoh’s world, which pharaoh believed in, was a polytheistic one. Therefore, it would seem that God’s intent was not just to free his people, but to demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was God, and that all that pharaoh worshiped as gods were mere idols.

There was a point when pharaoh may have given up for the wrong reasons, where he may have recognized that the Hebrew god had its own powers like his gods, but it was really not worth it to carry on the magic match against Moses. This would have not furthered God’s cause though, if pharaoh had given up so soon, so he at one point had to harden pharaoh’s heart, which means give him the strength and support to carry on in his endeavors until he actually did see that God was right and he was wrong. Like a pat on the back and a sniff of smelling salts for the boxer from the trainer, hardening his heart did not in any way mean that God was interfering with pharaoh’s will, but really strengthening his will.

Now according to Rabbi David Forman, there did come a point when pharaoh did realize that God was right, and his polytheism was wrong, The timing of the events, and the cooperation of gods that hated each other such as ice gods and fire gods was just too much to believe that all things were not under the power of the Yahweh, the God to end all gods so to speak. But at this point, pharaoh, who considered himself to be a god, suffered from hurt pride, and he became stubborn. At this point appealing to his reason was no longer possible, for he knew the truth of the monotheistic God, and rejected that truth out of pride and hatred. At this point, God changed his plan. Convincing pharaoh was no longer enough, for pharaoh already knew and he rejected God out of spite. So this time God again hardened pharaohs heart, but this time it did not mean that he strengthened his resolve, but instead he in effect condemned pharaoh to his state of obstinate stubbornness. Now the plan was not to convince pharaoh, and through pharaoh the whole of the pagan world, that he was the One. Now his plan was to increase the drama, make the story of the Exodus the Greatest Story Ever Told, a story for the ages to be passed on from generation to generation and told and retold again and again. Pharaoh became a two-bit actor in the drama, a clownish figure really, doomed to be hoisted on his own petard for all the world to see forever.
Here again through, it was pharaoh’s decision to reject God, and God merely accepted that decision as final and set it in stone.

Some of this can be found on youtube still by the way.
youtube.com/watch?v=Q90zy6Ydymk&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL78F6398EC391985D

youtube.com/watch?v=f-ypYVhaky8&feature=BFa&list=PL78F6398EC391985D&lf=results_video

 

[bmullins]

In my opinion, the reason God hardened the Pharaohs heart was in order to prove his ultimate supremacy to the Egyptian gods. Each consecutive plague did just that. In order to prove that God was THE God, he had to be stronger than all the gods… not just one or two.

Water turned to blood - Hapi, the god of the Nile
Frogs - Heket the Goddes of Fertility (often depicted as a frog)
lice from the dust of the earth - Geb, god of the earth
swams of flies - Khepri, god of creation, movement of the sun, rebirth
death of cattle and livestock - hathor, goddes of love and protection
ashes turned to boils and sores - Isis, Egyptian goddess of peace
hail rained down in the form of fire - Nut, goddess of the sky
locusts from the sky - seth, god of storms and disorder
three days of darkness - ra the sun god

And the most important plague, the one that showed God’s ultimate supremecy.

death of the firstborn, this plague killed the son of Pharaoh. Pharaoh was the ultimate God, and his firstborn would be the future pharoh and was considered god as well.

And the most important plague, the one that showed God’s ultimate supremecy.

death of the firstborn, this plague killed the son of Pharaoh. Pharoh was the ultimate God, and his firstborn would be the future pharoh and was considered god as well.

If there had only been one plague and Pharaoh had then capitulated, there could have been doubt as to who was supreme. “Oh the God of Moses is strong… but He isn’t stronger than XXXX”. By showing his dominion of all areas of their life, by ‘killing’ their God’s in their perception of it… God showed that He was the ONLY God.

 

[Crumpy]

Ok, my hermanos and hermanas…

So I was thinking about the book of Exodus and remembered that God made the Pharaoh obstinate according to the NAB. The Douay-Rheims says that the Lord “hardened the heart of the Pharao…” Why did God do this every time he asked Moses to approach him to convince him to let his people go? I mean there are several instances through out Exodus. For example Exodus 9:34,35 reads “And Pharao seeing that the rain and the hail, and the thunders were ceased, increased his.And his heart was hardened, and it was made exceeding hard; neither did he let the children of Isreal go, as the Lord had commanded by the hand of Moses.”

Also, Exodus 9:12 reads “And the Lord hardened Pharao’s heart, and he hearkened not unto them, as the Lord had spoken to Moses.”

The way I view this is that God MADE Pharaoh’s heart hardened causing him to NOT let Moses take the “…children of Isreal…”

Why would God do this? Why would he make Pharaoh NOT let “…children of Isreal go…”?

Also, is it possible for God to do the same to us in terms of “hardening of our hearts?”

I hope I got my question across. Please help me understand this one because I feel that God has used me at times to be stubborn to prove a point.

I think that God had many purposes in hardening Pharoah’s heart. On the Egyptian side of the plagues, the magicians were trying to show that they were as powerful if not moreso than the Hebrew God. It probably was God’s purpose to show the Israelites, also, that He was more powerful than the gods and idols of the Egyptians, that the Israelites had worshipped, also.

So, there is a successive confrontation between the God of Moses and the gods of the Egyptians, up to and including the most demonstrative, the death of the Egyptian firstborn, which disrupted the Egyptians plans for their own journeys to the afterlife. (The sons had to conduct the rituals to send them off to the egyptian afterlife.)

The plagues were not the only problem, but the Egyptians chased the israelites to the sea, and there again, God showed his power to save the Israelites.

When the Israelites were later at Sinai, they abandoned the covenant with Yahweh and created an idol to worship – to show that their hearts were still not converted. So, Yahweh had a lot of coversions to perform.

The most important way to worship God is because of everyone’s free will.

 

[ready]

NewAdvent.org adds this comment by Bp. Challoner with respect to this passage: “not by being the efficient cause of his hardness of heart, but by permitting it; and by withdrawing grace from him, in punishment of his malice; which alone was the proper cause of his being hardened.”

I have read this before. It should answer your question.

 

[InDefense]

**Psalm 105:
**
24] And he increased his people greatly; and made them stronger than their enemies.
25] He turned their heart to hate his people, to deal subtilly with his servants.
26] He sent Moses his servant; and Aaron whom he had chosen.
27] They shewed his signs among them, and wonders in the land of Ham.

38] Egypt was glad when they departed: for the fear of them fell upon them.

 

[WesleyF]

Ok, my hermanos and hermanas…

So I was thinking about the book of Exodus and remembered that God made the Pharaoh obstinate according to the NAB. The Douay-Rheims says that the Lord “hardened the heart of the Pharao…” Why did God do this every time he asked Moses to approach him to convince him to let his people go? I mean there are several instances through out Exodus. For example Exodus 9:34,35 reads “And Pharao seeing that the rain and the hail, and the thunders were ceased, increased his.And his heart was hardened, and it was made exceeding hard; neither did he let the children of Isreal go, as the Lord had commanded by the hand of Moses.”

Also, Exodus 9:12 reads “And the Lord hardened Pharao’s heart, and he hearkened not unto them, as the Lord had spoken to Moses.”

The way I view this is that God MADE Pharaoh’s heart hardened causing him to NOT let Moses take the “…children of Isreal…”

Why would God do this? Why would he make Pharaoh NOT let “…children of Isreal go…”?

Also, is it possible for God to do the same to us in terms of “hardening of our hearts?”

I hope I got my question across. Please help me understand this one because I feel that God has used me at times to be stubborn to prove a point.

Robert Sungenis explained this excellently in his debate with James White. See this link here. This makes sense!!!

youtube.com/watch?v=ZSNM75FVBCA#t=05m10s

 

[WesleyF]

Why would God do this? Why would he make Pharaoh NOT let “…children of Isreal go…”?

As can been seen from Sungenis’ explanation in the above video, God hardened Pharaoh’s heart, because Pharaoh first hardened his own heart.

Also, is it possible for God to do the same to us in terms of “hardening of our hearts?”

Absolutely. In fact, this is actually a punishment for our sins. Here’s is an excerpt from Dr. Scott Hahn’s comment on Romans 1.

“God’s punishment for sin is the pleasure that we experience when we commit that which ruptures the family bond between us and our father. God punishes us by allowing us to experience illicit pleasures, and then the punishment for enjoying these illicit pleasures is what? The punishment for enjoying illicit pleasures sinfully is the addiciton, the attachment, the idolatorous yoke that enslaves us to sin.”

This is profound. If you want to hear this, download the first talk in this series -

Our Father’s Plan

ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?seriesID=-306548622

 

[anrmenchaca47]

As can been seen from Sungenis’ explanation in the above video, God hardened Pharaoh’s heart, because Pharaoh first hardened his own heart.

Absolutely. In fact, this is actually a punishment for our sins. Here’s is an excerpt from Dr. Scott Hahn’s comment on Romans 1.

"God’s punishment for sin is the pleasure that we experience when we commit that which ruptures the family bond between us and our father. God punishes us by allowing us to experience illicit pleasures, and then the punishment for enjoying these illicit pleasures is what? The punishment for enjoying illicit pleasures sinfully is the addiciton, the attachment, the idolatorous yoke that enslaves us to sin."
This is profound. If you want to hear this, download the first talk in this series -

Our Father’s Plan

ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?seriesID=-306548622

I am mainly commenting on the bold text.

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the punishment, say for example if someone is always watching inappropriate things on TV,would be the attachment to it? So then how would you get rid of that attachment?

 

[bmullins]

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the punishment, say for example if someone is always watching inappropriate things on TV,would be the attachment to it? So then how would you get rid of that attachment?

By turning to God and allowing him and the grace he provides us in reconciliation to pull us back to him. St. Paul also goes into this in the bible, that when someone is set in their sin and doing things that they know they shouldn’t be doing… that you should turn them over to Satan, that their soul might be saved.

(see 1 Corinthians 5)

It’s also important to realize that this is the teaching in the Catechism about venial sin. That by consistently committing venial sin, with no repentance one can lead themselves into mortal sin.