Of what harm would it do

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Mijoy2:
… I came to these forums to express these doubts and, hopefully, to lessen them through those of greater faith and greater knowledge of the faith.

I apologize in advance if this is not articualte enough to be understood.
Wow,Mjoy… Peace be with you!
Lot’s of people come to these fora for the same reasons as you have…You need to pray for an increases of Faith…I know I do everyday… :yup:
We are all on our “Spiritual Journey” and are not all in the same place…
I think you are just where God wants you to be at this point in your life…🙂
God Bless,
Annunciata
p.s. Take a look at Romans:16:25-27
 
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Mijoy2:
If God revealed himself to a much greater degree?

My question is not meant to call into light the degree of which he has revealed Himself. I’m hoping not to get answers of the variety;
the beauty of the creation, love, objective good etc. I don’t dispute these issues, these revelations. Yet they can, and have been argued since the beginning of time as to whether they are God’s revelation or, from the atheist perspective, a by product of evolution.

My question, admittedly seemingly silly (yet I ask with all seriousness) why hasn’t he revealed Himself in a indisputable manner? I realize there are hardcore atheists who would dispute nearly everything but I fail to see what the secret is. Why can’t (or more to the point; won’t) God reveal Himself in a manner such as moving Mount Everest to a different country, alphabetically every 10 years.

The obvious answer is He calls us to faith. My ignorance asks why? Why does He ask us to believe with a limited degree of revelation? It would not disable our free will. We would still be able to accept or reject Him. He could still read our hearts.

Frankly, why the mystery? What is the purpose?
…i don’t know that his phyical presence (like it was 2000 years ago) would garner anymore belief then it did 2000 years ago… the man walked around preaching the word, healing people, raising them from the dead, appearing with Moses and Elijah, transfiguring, and people still did not believe…

bottom line, i don’t have the answer you desire, but i’m not totally convinced his reception would be any more well received now then it was the first time…

Peace:thumbsup:
 
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MonicaC:
Well, I think that we need to remember that God is not of this world, we as Humans tend to think that we need to always have solid proof for our actions. Who created our world, but God. If say you had a child that you adored and loved, but you died before your child’s long term memory came in. All of his living relatives tell him his whole life that you loved him with all of your heart and all that he has came from you. Than naturally that child will have Faith that he was loved by this parent that he has never meet, and he now has the choice of wether he should love you in return. How is he to know if you even existed except by having faith.
Sorry … I just have to interrupt and jump in her for a moment. This is a great comment and idea! It absolutely removes any tiny particle of fog ever drifting in on this subject. How can this advise be doubted? How can it be spread to all who have ever doubted?
 
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PeterC:
Sorry … I just have to interrupt and jump in her for a moment. This is a great comment and idea! It absolutely removes any tiny particle of fog ever drifting in on this subject. How can this advise be doubted? How can it be spread to all who have ever doubted?
I suppose you could prove i by giving them a daily missal, or just simple have them go to church.

I hope I am understanding your question right.🙂
 
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PeterC:
Sorry … I just have to interrupt and jump in her for a moment. This is a great comment and idea! It absolutely removes any tiny particle of fog ever drifting in on this subject. How can this advise be doubted? How can it be spread to all who have ever doubted?
Hello Peter,

I am not sure I really understand your questions, do youthink you can elibrate for me? :o
 
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PeterC:
Sorry … I just have to interrupt and jump in her for a moment. This is a great comment and idea! It absolutely removes any tiny particle of fog ever drifting in on this subject. How can this advise be doubted? How can it be spread to all who have ever doubted?
PeterC, you encouraged me to read Monicas reply more closely. She does make a very good point.

Having given this much thought I have a stumbled across a possible reason.

Of the faith I have I asked myself of what/who did I attribute mostly for it. Although there are many sources such as good books, the (although arguable) inerrancy of scripture, scripture itself, teaching of the RC church, various semons, encyclicals…and so on, none of these leap to the top of the list.

What leaps to the top of the list is the feeling in my heart (Truth?) of the composite of all the teachings of the things listed above. I can more easily see the errors in my former way of thinking and behaving that I could not see before. I can’t attribute this “feeling” this “truth” to anything that could have become manifest through pure human teaching. I may not experience this truth if God provided me with His existance on a silver platter. I may not have seeked out what He mosts wants from us. To love Him and one another. I may have taken the free pass and behaved as He commands without much regard to why.

I need to keep thinking along these lines, maybe.

Thanks much all, hope this made some sense.
 
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MonicaC:
Hello Peter,

I am not sure I really understand your questions, do youthink you can elibrate for me? :o
I guess the only way I can elaborate is to once again compliment your thoughts and ability to express an idea that is really irresistible. It’s kind of like “the dawn comes in the middle of the day!” Read MIJOY2’s comment below and you’ll see the positive impact of your thought. Well done.
 
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Mijoy2:
If God revealed himself to a much greater degree?

My question is not meant to call into light the degree of which he has revealed Himself. I’m hoping not to get answers of the variety;
the beauty of the creation, love, objective good etc. I don’t dispute these issues, these revelations. Yet they can, and have been argued since the beginning of time as to whether they are God’s revelation or, from the atheist perspective, a by product of evolution.

My question, admittedly seemingly silly (yet I ask with all seriousness) why hasn’t he revealed Himself in a indisputable manner? I realize there are hardcore atheists who would dispute nearly everything but I fail to see what the secret is. Why can’t (or more to the point; won’t) God reveal Himself in a manner such as moving Mount Everest to a different country, alphabetically every 10 years.

The obvious answer is He calls us to faith. My ignorance asks why? Why does He ask us to believe with a limited degree of revelation? It would not disable our free will. We would still be able to accept or reject Him. He could still read our hearts.

Frankly, why the mystery? What is the purpose?

ISTM that God can reveal Himself only if the recipient of the revelation can receive it.​

To receive, we must be capable of receiving. That is the difficulty.

Suppose that God spoke Gujarati 🙂 - a revelation in Gujarati might be OK for a Gujarati-speaker: it would not be any good to speakers of Tamil, Urdu, or Hindi. Or to anyone else. IOW - a revelation which cannot be received by those to whom it is given, is no revelation in its effects.

As C.S. Lewis asks, “How shall we see God face to face, until we have faces ?” Christians “are being transformed from one degree of glory into another” - Christ dwells in them, and they in Him. They are being given faces - the Saints in Heaven have them. But how can those who do not have this transforming Friendship, be transformed by it ? To have it, they need to have what they do not have: they’re in a bind. That is why - presumably - the initiative in conversion always rests with God. Because God is transcendent, which we are not.

Not only that, but only God converts. God is able to enter into all the depths of the human heart - or rather, is in them already and always. Our arguments can’t go deep enough, they cannot enter into all the depths of human nature - but God can. And the reason they can’t go deep enough, is for the same reason that external marvels like shifting mountains are not going to be enough: they don’t, in themselves, affect the very core and heart of man; that is what needs to be converted. Unless man’s heart is made able to receive the Christ Whom, of himself, he cannot receive, he cannot receive Him. Let Him only be received - and those who do receive Him, will be on their way to having faces.

Why doesn’t God force His way into our hearts ? Because it would destroy us. He has made us to be his sons, for the honour of His Son; and if we are to be sons (and daughters of course !) then we can’t be treated like robots. Our wills are free, because so is Christ’s. If anyone is intended to be remade according to the likeness of Christ - then his will has to have the same freedom. To force us, would be to ruin us. The obedience of Christ was a wholly free obedience, all the more real for being free: which means it was not forced. It had to be free, if it was to be an expression of His Love.

In becoming one of us, Christ put aside the full splendour of His Godhead: the Incarnation is a voluntary “dumbing-down” of the full Glory of God. He is God - but in a manner made endurable to us; so that He could be received by us.

The Incarnation, shows us how God works in revelation.

The Incarnation and what followed, is not a rather poor effort by a God Who is, when it comes to it, really not all that great: He is so great, that it is hard to see (from this end, man’s end) what He could have done that He did not.

It’s not what God does that needs changing; the problem is with the (intended) recipients. People cannot believe, what they are unwilling to believe that they might find fit to believe ##
 
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MonicaC:
Well, I think that we need to remember that God is not of this world, we as Humans tend to think that we need to always have solid proof for our actions. Who created our world, but God. If say you had a child that you adored and loved, but you died before your child’s long term memory came in. All of his living relatives tell him his whole life that you loved him with all of your heart and all that he has came from you. Than naturally that child will have Faith that he was loved by this parent that he has never meet, and he now has the choice of wether he should love you in return. How is he to know if you even existed except by having faith.

I think this is a really beautiful answer 🙂

 
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