Offering Divine Liturgy for others/and private prayer

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handmaidenByzC

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I have some questions about how to go about doing this in the Byzantine Rite.
We were asked to sign up for the year. I have never really understood this part of our faith, except for funerals. I feel like if I pick that a liturgy should be for one person, somehow it is less for others. Why should one person be elevated above another? And what if no one prays for someone (died in war…no children). I read somewhere that our prayers and liturgies for others do NOT change the grace bestowed upon them by God, but He does ask us to pray. These prayers, in the mystery of His wisdom, is actually to benefit US…though I do not understand.

Anyway…the sign up sheet (I have never done this before because my family or church never taught me the “rules” and the most helpful)
  1. For someone living…should it be on their birthday? who should I include? parents, siblings, God children, friends, acquaintances, enemies, everyone, those I have hurt (even if I do not know their names), those who have hurt me?
  2. For the deceased…should it be on their birthday, or day called home…what if I do not know either? who should I include? parents, aunts, uncles, aunts, aunts uncles by marriage, grandparents, great grandparents, great great grandparents, cousins, friends, colleagues, those I have hurt, those who have hurt me?
  3. When is there a panahida versus a memorial liturgy. how often can you have these?
any other information appreciated too.

If having liturgies said for people is good, should I just have a liturgy offered everyday…for EVERYONE??

I do not really understand…see I was born into byzantine rite…but at age 8 had to leave with my baptist mother. Then as adult, I was able to return to my beloved Catholic Church. I occasionally got to go to the byzantine church…but mostly to the roman church. They do not have sunday school or catechism for adults…so there is no more learning after adolescence.

For another thread…I need help with eastern private prayer…it seems so complex. The Latin rite is more straight forward…having spent time in convents…they have simple books for matins, vespers, compline…then their are “formulas” for certain devotions.

I would like to say the equivalent hours, or devotions specific to the day…like the latin hours…and have special devotions to the ancient Fathers.

I realize I just put two threads together…sorry…maybe someone can fix that.

Thanking you all,
Handmaiden
 
oh another question about offering liturgies for others…the form asks for names and the name of the one offering. Is it okay to just give first name, and put anonymous as the offering one? I guess I just feel that these liturgies, for me, should be private, and not “showy…if that makes sense.”

thank you all
 
also, what is the correct stipend, it says $10, can we pay more, what is the max? who do we make check to, Father? or do we just use case. And do panahidas cost more or do you pay twice for that liturgy.

Thank you
 
All three of your posts are very interesting to me. I’ve never heard of this. (I’m familiar with such a practice in the Latin Church.)

It helps perhaps explain why a young Ukrainian Catholic woman who comes quite often to our parish was so concerned one day about how to have her prayer intention offered at the Liturgy. I just showed her our prayer intention papers and to put the intention with a prosphora where the clergy pick them up. (The suggested donation for the prosphora and intention is $1.00 at my parish.) You can see here the “Proskomidia” or Office of Preparation description on the St. Elias UGCC site which is also the way intentions are done in my Russian Greek Catholic parish. All the names from these prayer intentions are commemorated in the Office of Preparation. In my parish it’s the practice generally to only name during the litanies the names of those who are present for whom there is an intention being prayed, and also the recently reposed, for example our priest’s father recently reposed so his name is spoken in the litanies.

I’m glad you brought this up since it’s totally foreign to me. I had no idea any Eastern Catholics did something like this which I do know from the practice in the Latin Church. Again, I suspect our UGC young woman may well have had something like this in mind when she asked me how to get to the clergy the name of the person she wanted the Liturgy said for and I showed her the prosphora and papers for intentions.
 
5Loaves said:
All three of your posts are very interesting to me. I’ve never heard of this. (I’m familiar with such a practice in the Latin Church.)

It helps perhaps explain why a young Ukrainian Catholic woman who comes quite often to our parish was so concerned one day about how to have her prayer intention offered at the Liturgy. I just showed her our prayer intention papers and to put the intention with a prosphora where the clergy pick them up. (The suggested donation for the prosphora and intention is $1.00 at my parish.) You can see here the “Proskomidia” or Office of Preparation description on the St. Elias UGCC site which is also the way intentions are done in my Russian Greek Catholic parish. All the names from these prayer intentions are commemorated in the Office of Preparation. In my parish it’s the practice generally to only name during the litanies the names of those who are present for whom there is an intention being prayed, and also the recently reposed, for example our priest’s father recently reposed so his name is spoken in the litanies.

I’m glad you brought this up since it’s totally foreign to me. I had no idea any Eastern Catholics did something like this which I do know from the practice in the Latin Church. Again, I suspect our UGC young woman may well have had something like this in mind when she asked me how to get to the clergy the name of the person she wanted the Liturgy said for and I showed her the prosphora and papers for intentions.
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Unfortunately many Eastern Catholic Churches have been Latinized to the extent that they offer Divine Liturgies for just one person (no other commemorations). The “reason” given by many priests is that if you can only have one intention per Liturgy in order to get the stipend.
 
I have private devotion and private prayer. I try and offer it in accord with Liturgy when I can
 
wow, my priest would think I had 6 heads, if I proposed that the daily practice was latinization. I did send him a note saying that I did not understand it theologically…he did not answer. I remain confused.
Thank you all
 
handmaidenByzC said:
wow, my priest would think I had 6 heads, if I proposed that the daily practice was latinization. I did send him a note saying that I did not understand it theologically…he did not answer. I remain confused.
Thank you all
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Your priest would not think you had 6 heads for saying this (even if he didn’t like it). The traditional Byzantine way of doing it is MANY intentions for each Liturgy. The idea of one intention per Liturgy is a very recent things (100 years or so) and most priests would be aware that it is Latinization. All of the Liturgicons published by the Byzantine Catholic Churches have a diagram of the discos properly prepared with many intentions layed out, even if this is not followed( I believe 5 loaves posted a link).
 
I do not know what to say. I was having a crisis of the spirit when I realized that I did not make yearly mass requests. It all just seemed wrong to me. As I said, I feel like we should pray for everyone. Some people do not have anyone praying for them in a “mass” It does not seem spiritually sensible to me that God would favor someone because a mass is said for them versus someone else. That is not to say we should not pray…the whole thing just confuses my sense of God and worship. It makes me feel better to know it is a latinization…because the tradition just does not make sense to me…for me…not for latins…I am sure it is good for them.

thank you,
handmaiden
 
handmaidenByzC said:
I do not know what to say. I was having a crisis of the spirit when I realized that I did not make yearly mass requests. It all just seemed wrong to me. As I said, I feel like we should pray for everyone. Some people do not have anyone praying for them in a “mass” It does not seem spiritually sensible to me that God would favor someone because a mass is said for them versus someone else. That is not to say we should not pray…the whole thing just confuses my sense of God and worship. It makes me feel better to know it is a latinization…because the tradition just does not make sense to me…for me…not for latins…I am sure it is good for them.

thank you,
handmaiden
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I am in no way saying not to remember people with Divine Liturgy intentions…I am merely pointing out that “one intenton per Divine Liturgy” is a Latinization. In traditional Byzantine praxis there could be hundreds of intentions at a Divine Liturgy. Christians have an obligation to pray for those who have died…what better prayer to offer then the Divine Liturgy.

I know of a Russian Orthodox priest who takes about 2.5 hours to prepare the gifts during the prothesis due to the great number of people he commemorates both living and departed.
 
I am confused…so there should or should not be mention of a particular person in the litany of prayers at the start of the liturgy and at the end. e.g. "please remember your servant john, and make his memory eternal.
at the end…and something like "and remember john and make his memory eternal…eternal memory eternal memory…blessed repose and eternal memory, vichnaya…

handmaiden
(one name per liturgy…though other intentions are mentioned in general “those we have promised to pray for, pope, bishop, infirm, homebound, those suffering from hurricain…” all this is said while the priest takes the bread and wine from behind the iconostasos through the holy doors.
 
ciero said:
I know of a Russian Orthodox priest who takes about 2.5 hours to prepare the gifts during the prothesis due to the great number of people he commemorates both living and departed.
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Our priests and deacon spend about 20-25 minutes doing the Proskomedia. We have a very tiny parish. Usually 6-8 prosphora are put out for people to use. We have a choice of papers to list the names of intentions for the reposed, separate papers to list any number of names for intentions for the living, or little booklets some people prefer to use each time. In addition to the St. Elias site I gave earlier, I also think that Wikipedia has a good description of the Liturgy of Preparation. I also know there is a Youtube of a priest doing the Liturgy of Preparation in the presence of the faithful for their education but I can’t find it at the moment.

Perhaps Diakonia or Vico will answer as to what the Ruthenian practice is. Clearly it’s different from that of my Church. Do you have a deacon who you could ask about this. I would think you could also contact your Eparchy and ask for an explanation if you find talking with your clergy about this unhelpful.

Do some of the UGCC also have this practice which handmaidenByzC has described? It seems St Elias doesn’t but as I said I’m now wondering if the Ukrainian young woman who often comes to my Church may have had this in mind.
 
5Loaves said:
Our priests and deacon spend about 20-25 minutes doing the Proskomedia. We have a very tiny parish. Usually 6-8 prosphora are put out for people to use. We have a choice of papers to list the names of intentions for the reposed, separate papers to list any number of names for intentions for the living, or little booklets some people prefer to use each time. In addition to the St. Elias site I gave earlier, I also think that Wikipedia has a good description of the Liturgy of Preparation. I also know there is a Youtube of a priest doing the Liturgy of Preparation in the presence of the faithful for their education but I can’t find it at the moment.

Perhaps Diakonia or Vico will answer as to what the Ruthenian practice is. Clearly it’s different from that of my Church. Do you have a deacon who you could ask about this. I would think you could also contact your Eparchy and ask for an explanation if you find talking with your clergy about this unhelpful.

Do some of the UGCC also have this practice which handmaidenByzC has described? It seems St Elias doesn’t but as I said I’m now wondering if the Ukrainian young woman who often comes to my Church may have had this in mind.
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The Ruthenian practice is traditionally the same as all the other Byzantines, but in modern practice they usually have 1 intention per liturgy so the priest can take the stipend.
 
handmaidenByzC said:
I am confused…so there should or should not be mention of a particular person in the litany of prayers at the start of the liturgy and at the end. e.g. "please remember your servant john, and make his memory eternal.
at the end…and something like "and remember john and make his memory eternal…eternal memory eternal memory…blessed repose and eternal memory, vichnaya…

handmaiden
(one name per liturgy…though other intentions are mentioned in general “those we have promised to pray for, pope, bishop, infirm, homebound, those suffering from hurricain…” all this is said while the priest takes the bread and wine from behind the iconostasos through the holy doors.
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Of mcourse it is good for people to be named in the litanies, it is one of our responsibilities as Christians to pray for each other, and what better prayer then the Liturgy.

The idea that the Liturgy is for 1 particular person is foreign to the Byzantine mindset, it is a Latinization.
 
ciero said:
The Ruthenian practice is traditionally the same as all the other Byzantines, but in modern practice they usually have 1 intention per liturgy so the priest can take the stipend.
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So is there something in Ruthenian canon law about stipends?
I’m only familiar with the CIC Can. 945-Can. 958.
Can. 945 §1. In accord with the approved practice of the Church, any priest celebrating or concelebrating is permitted to receive an offering to apply the Mass for a specific intention.
§2. It is recommended earnestly to priests that they celebrate Mass for the intention of the Christian faithful, especially the needy, even if they have not received an offering.
Can. 947 Any appearance of tracking or trading is to be excluded entirely from the offering for Masses.
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The rest of the Latin canons go on to delineate how to receive the stipend (once a day) licitly. Clearly licitly receiving one stipend a day does not in any way prohibit the offering to apply the Mass for a specific intention also without a stipend.

There are no stipends of this nature in my parish. The money from our prosphora is in the same “category” with our candles in our recording of money collected at a liturgy/service. At the recent Sacrament of the Anointing of the sick some family members wanted to give the priest money. He put it into the collection.

Perhaps this is related to another thread we had about the employment of clergy wives…
Our parish priests in recent times have been monks and were employed as teachers/professors which was their support.
 
i do not have any problem with the money, $10 per day is hardly worth much, I would gladly contribute to the priest’s stipend…anonymously of course. My concern is…how do I understand that a liturgy is offered (for all, and many intentions in a litany) but officially for one person…by one or two people in the latin traditions. shouldn’t we just pray for everyone…bringing personally those concerns in our heart? i am just all confused as to how this makes spiritual sense. i am not sure i believe in masses for an “intention” i thought masses were to praise God, and to implore blessings on everyone…those we mention, those we most should mention.

handmaiden
 
handmaidenByzC said:
i do not have any problem with the money, $10 per day is hardly worth much, I would gladly contribute to the priest’s stipend…anonymously of course. My concern is…how do I understand that a liturgy is offered (for all, and many intentions in a litany) but officially for one person…by one or two people in the latin traditions. shouldn’t we just pray for everyone…bringing personally those concerns in our heart? i am just all confused as to how this makes spiritual sense. i am not sure i believe in masses for an “intention” i thought masses were to praise God, and to implore blessings on everyone…those we mention, those we most should mention.

handmaiden
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I’m with you, sister.
In my Latin parish the deacon says with great emphasis “… and especially for so and so…” I wouldn’t be surprised if people contact the bishop if for some reason the name they paid for isn’t spoken in the prayers for the people. To me it’s one of the most uncomfortable things in the OF Roman Rite, along with how minimal are the petitions period. I love our many litanies in the Divine Liturgy. 👍
 
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