Ok College Phil. class "disproves God"

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I remember my Phil teach from college pulling this on us when talking about the existence of God.

“Can God create a mountain soo big that even HE can not move it?”

Ok if u answer yes then He is not all powerful.
If you say no He is not all powerful.

Not all powerful = not Omnipotent God:confused:

What should I have said or say if i run into this again?
 
This is an easy answer. The problem is one of science, actually. You see, in a finite universe, the concept of infinite does not make physical sense. A mountain, therefore, expanding to infinite would consume the entire universe and extend “beyond.” However, beyond the universe the concept of a mountain (or necessarily physical existance) has no meaning. As such, as the problem expands, it becomes pointless because the discussion takes on nonsensical elements.

You might recommend to your philosophy professor that he take 400 level philosophy of religion again as a refresher before he makes such silly assertions. Oh, and quantum mechanics classes wouldn’t hurt him either.
 
Besides the good above answer, the Trinity also answers this issue. God the Father could create a boulder that God the Son could not lift (since He was like us in all ways but sin, but yet He was divine). Both are fully and completely God.
 
a good point…

But he isn’t saying the mountain itself has to be infinite right? Just so large that it can not be moved…

At least thats one possible objection that I could see being considered.
 
God is a rational Being.

The idea of Him attempting to create something too big for Him to move is not a rational idea. Why would God ignore the laws of the universe which He Himself created?

Therefore, the ‘assumption’ falls short not just on the grounds of science or physics, but on the grounds of logic as well.
 
Gnosis said:
But he isn’t saying the mountain itself has to be infinite right? Just so large that it can not be moved…
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the question demands an infinite mountain, because if God is omnipotent then it would take an infinitely large object in order for it not to be move-able by God.
 
The question involves a contradiction in terms. “A rock so big that God cannot lift it” is the same as saying, “Can God make a triangle with four sides?” “Can God kill himself?” “Can God make a square circle?”

These are all contradictions in terms.

God doesn’t do contradictions.
Because contradictions are not realities–they are nothings.
And nothing IS impossible to God.
 
Genesis315 said:
Besides the good above answer, the Trinity also answers this issue. God the Father could create a boulder that God the Son could not lift (since He was like us in all ways but sin, but yet He was divine). Both are fully and completely God.
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The Persons are not divided in their activity, so the activity of creating the mountain would be shared by the Son as well, and the Son can certainly move any mountain except, perhaps, in his human nature.

What the philosophy professor was asking is “Can God break the Law of Non-Contradiction?” In other words, can God make something and its opposite both true at the same time in the same way?

No. Of course he can’t.

The question doesn’t even make sense. Just because you can string words together in a certain way doesn’t mean that those words reflect a real concept.

There is no such possible concept as a mountain that God cannot move. It is not possible that there be a mountain that God cannot move. Thus, God cannot create such a mountain.

Is this a limitation on his omnipotence? Hardly. God can do all things. This means he can do all things that are possible. He can do all things that are really “things.” A mountain immovable by God is not a thing–not only not in actuality but not even potentially.

He can’t make himself not exist. He can’t make round squares. He can’t make 2 and 2 equal to 5, etc. Because none of those series of words reflect a concept that is real.
 
To me this is like asking “can God divide by zero?” or “can God make a circle that’s not a circle?”
 
ni8_shadow said:
I remember my Phil teach from college pulling this on us when talking about the existence of God.

“Can God create a mountain soo big that even HE can not move it?”

Ok if u answer yes then He is not all powerful.
If you say no He is not all powerful.

Not all powerful = not Omnipotent God:confused:

What should I have said or say if i run into this again?
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JimG had your answer, I think.

What hes asked is something nonsensical. I actually found the answer to this question on an atheist website basically telling atheist apologists to steer clear of this weak argument. The atheist said it would be somewhat like saying “What flavor is Tuesday?”

To have God make a rock He cannot lift is impossible, because the question you asked isn’t a question at all. I once heard it said it would be like saying you may receive your learners permit if
  1. You have no driving experience
  2. You are fifteen years of age
  3. You are an experienced driver.
1 and 3 contradict each other from the get go.

God cannot contradict Himself, because He is perfect, and contradiction isn’t perfection. If it was, then every alleged Bible contradiction could be swept aside as irrelevant, and every politician who went back against what they said would have no fear doing it again.

As C.S. Lewis once said, “Nonsense does not cease being nonsense once the words ‘God can’ are placed in front.”

Your teacher needs to hit up philosophy 101.
 
ni8_shadow said:
I remember my Phil teach from college pulling this on us when talking about the existence of God.

“Can God create a mountain soo big that even HE can not move it?”

Ok if u answer yes then He is not all powerful.
If you say no He is not all powerful.

Not all powerful = not Omnipotent God:confused:

What should I have said or say if i run into this again?
Click to expand...
I am sure it is not beyond God’s wit to create a mountain with imaginary mass. That is to say, a mountain whose mass is the square root of a negative number.
 
ni8_shadow said:
“Can God create a mountain soo big that even HE can not move it?”
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Hello shadow

Frank Sheed in his book Theology for Beginners did the best job of answering this questions.

Frank Sheed’s answer is that God can indeed to all things, but self-contradiction is not a thing:
God cannot make a four sided triangle, because the terms contradict each other and cancel out. A four-sided triangle is meaningless; it is not a thing at all, it’s nothing. A weight that an almighty Being cannot lift is as much a contradiction in terms as a four-sided triangle. It too is nothing and nothing is impossible to God.
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God bless

EDIT I just read JimG response and me thinks that we read the same book 😃 . I should read the whole thread before I post, my apologies.
 
Roman_Catholic said:
Hello shadow

Frank Sheed in his book Theology for Beginners did the best job of answering this questions.

Frank Sheed’s answer is that God can indeed to all things, but self-contradiction is not a thing:

God bless

EDIT I just read JimG response and me thinks that we read the same book 😃 . I should read the whole thread before I post, my apologies.
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Yes, we did read the same book. I never tire of recommending Frank Sheed (Theology for Beginners, and Theology and Sanity,) even though I don’t always properly credit him when using his ideas.
 
wow great answers…have to admit I feel kind of dumb I could not answer that!! But that’s what this forum is for! Thanks and I will check out that book. Sounds interesting!
 
The way I’ve always gotten through it is from something I heard a long time ago.

Basically, you are asking an omnipotent being to do something that lessens His omnipotence. In other words, the Being (God) changes through the premises by making himself less powerful. Since that couldn’t happen, of course God could not create a rock/boulder/whatever so big He Himself could not lift it.

Or something along those lines. It’s some sort of fallacy or something as you are saying God is both omnipotent and not omnipotent in the same proof.
 
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