OL Guadalupe, virgen de los Lagos, Fatima

[puzzleannie]

I had three separate conversations with women of this parish in the last 2 weeks, one today after Confirmation class, which have taken my breath away. All three of these women, raised Catholic, raising good Catholic families, all of Mexican heritage but in this country for at least 2 generations made similar statements. Simply that they consider Our Lady of Guadalupe, the virgin of los Lagos (another popular image of Our Lady in Mexico who has a shrine near us), and Mary as she appeared in Fatima and Lourdes as different persons. All 3 were astounded when I assured them that all of these apparitions and the artistic renderings of them are images of the same woman, Mary the mother of Jesus Christ. I related the stories of these various apparitions and images, yet all 3 still expressed doubts that they all represent Mary. Has anyone else encountered similar misconceptions about Marian apparitions and images? What is lacking in our teaching on these things that Catholics can absorb such misinformation? I don’t know if this is a cultural thing or a generational thing, as all these women are younger than 35.

 

[JW10631]

I have not experienced such a thing. FWIW, Marian devotion in much of the US has disappeared.

 

[Maryam]

hmmm… I think this can be two things… that the young women have been poorly educated on Catholic Marian teachings or they are caught up in folk beliefs about Mary and the Saints that is not in line with the teachings of the Catholic church.

In Mexico and other parts of Latin America there is the phenomena of local saints who have not been recognized by the Catholic church as saints or who are not even human!

For example, you have a saint called “Santisima Muerte” = Holy Death… who comes in the form of a skeleton or as a beautiful young woman dressed in white.

If my suspicions are correct then these young women may be seeing the Virgin Mary as having different aspects and manifesting as different persons. That is why the find it hard to believe that the Virgin Mary is the same in Fatima, Lourdes and so on…, as many Mexicans may consider the “Santisima Muerte” as another aspect of the Virgin Mary.

It’s a complicated thing… lol Being Puerto Rican myself, I have to deal with the experience of seeing people mess around with things such as Santeria that mixes Catholic beliefs with African beliefs.

This is all wrong to do… but, all ethnic groups mix folks beliefs with the dominate faith in their countries… You can easily see this in Italy where they mix superstitions like using amulets/charms in protecting themselves against the evil eye “Malocchio”.

God bless all

 

[Zooey]

OK, this is really weird. I have had some of my fundamentalist protestant family get on me about the fact that I have a picture of Our Lady of Guadeloupe in my home. When I say that this is a picture of Mary when she was pregnant with Our Lord, I have been told that, no, this is not Mary at all…So I am very interested in this subject.
I love this portrayal so much because it represents to me my opposition to abortion. But this came to them from a fundamental missionary to Mexico…What’s going on?? This is all very odd…

 

[Maryam]

** Zooey ** I don’t understand why these Protestant Missionaries say that Our Lady of Guadalupe is not Mary.

Is it because her image physically is of an indigenous woman or something along these lines?

If these Protestants made such a statement of it not being Our Lady without backing it up with some proof, then it is not anything to think twice about. If you happen to see them again ask them exactly what they meant by it and for proof.

I wouldn’t worry about this at all Zooey… Those who say this is not Our Lady have no idea what they are talking about… My mom has a great devotion to Our Lady of Guadalupe as many other Hispanics.

All this stuff of Our Lady being different people or not being Our Lady is a bunch of gobbledee gook. (LOL Never thought I would use such a term in my life)

God bless all

 

[Genesis315]

The image of Our Lady of Guadalupe is so awesome. First off, she is the woman clothed in the sun with the moon at her feet–but instead of the crown of stars, she wears the Aztec sign of royalty covered in stars. She also is crushing the serpent moon god. She stands on the moon god and in front of the sun god showing she is conquering them, but she herself is not a god. In Aztec imagery gods stare wide eyed right at you. Mary, on the other hand, has her eyes lowered humbly. She also wears the sign of the missionaries–the Cross.

As was pointed out, she is carrying Jesus in her womb. If you notice, she has one foot forward and her other knee is bent as she walks forward bringing Christ to the new world.

Then of course there’s the eyes too.

 

[Paul_W]

Keep in mind that Mary was not a white European, as so many white European artists have depicted her.

If she was born in Nazareth, she was olive-skinned and had middle-eastern facial features.

The image of Our lady of Guadalupe is unique. It’s not an image painted by St. Juan Diego but a self-portrait left by the Blessed Mother. It’s the most authentic depiction we have.

 

[m134e5]

I used to think that Our Lady of Fatima was just some crazy woman in Portugal who thought she had a revelation about the end of the world. That was before I converted to Catholicism. I had never heard the story of Fatima then- I just heard Our Lady of Fatima connected with various prophesies. I also didn’t know then that Our Lady is a reference to Mary. I’m quite sure I’m not the only one who has thought along these lines.