Old Testament Atrocities

[PJM]

=dav3203;5966153]Hello to everyone!

NB I’m seeking direct (explanatory) responses to this particular issue…

Situation:
A common accusation is that the God of the Old Testament is ‘evil’ - or, to quote Dawkins, “a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully” (from his bestseller ) Now this kind of accusation is (like Dawkins’) generally accompanied by rhetoric but no real evidence other than a handful of OT quotes (for instance 1 Samuel 15:13).
So naturally this kind of accusation has not really been addressed seriously by most Christians, because it’s simply a weak argument. However, despite that truth, it raises a point - those handfuls of quotes certainly don’t sit easily with our modern understanding of God.

Of course, exploring the historical and literal context (form criticism) and its implications, will be of key importance in coming to an understanding that allows these quotes to agree with our modern understanding; my question would be how exactly we explain this process. What exactly do these contexts entail?

<NB: One argument I came across in my search for this explanation was William Lane Craig’s defense (“Did God Commit Atrocities in the Old Testament?” - see reasonablefaith.org) - while I respect him very much I wasn’t satisfied with his explanation, which as I understand it went like this:
If God commands us to do something, then the very fact of his command is reason enough to explain the change of the moral status of an action, even an action which may originally have been immoral. Thus, for example, Abraham’s action to sacrifice Isaac - in the absence of a command from God - would indeed have been atrocious. But the very fact that God issued his command to Abraham, changes the situation altogether. What was originally an immoral action is now an act of submission, of obedience toward God. Thus Abraham commits no wrong.
Now there isn’t anything illogical about this, and I have taken it out of the full context of his argument (it’s only a small part of his talk) but even as a whole, this argument and others don’t appear to be satisfactory. I know that many things don’t have a satisfactory answer, but answers like these really don’t cut it.>

So, what are some of your responses?

***The explaination is evident, simple and to the point.

God is and has to be All Good*

God too is Perfect in everyway

God has to be JUST. Anyone that has actually read the OT in it’s entirety knows factually that God punishments were a direct [and warned] response to there falling away; turning to “other god’s” and pagan practices.

When they Obeyed and turned back to God he did very many GOOD things for them.

When, as very often they chose to ignore God; disobey God and His Prophets; He administered Divine Justice. [ya get what ya ask for]

The reason we have an issue understanding this today is that dispite the current evils of sex abuse, abortion, catholics in name only, the very Ordinary Mass, ect; God for reasons ONLY GOD can understand, has been patient in inflicting His Jutice upon us. I’m personally of the mind that He’s allowing us to destroy ourselves and all that He has Blessed us with. And it seems to be comming soon and very soon. **

If yo find yorself in a situation of defending the faith, ask fo a precise nd specific example; get your bible out and read two chapters before and one after, and you’ll have sufficient evidence to make yor point that God is GOOD BUT JUST!

 

[grannymh]

Thanks for clearing that up!

Now, back to the context of the OP, according to all you’ve just posted, the innocent babies would not fit under that category, since they haven’t had a chance to live their lives. I know the Church is silent on these matters, for example aborted children. So, I guess, all we can do is opine and trust in the Will of God. Of course, that 2nd little caveat is a little tough for an athiest; hence, I can only resort to opining.

This is my favorite dilemma. Because it has such a happy solution.

What you said about trusting in God is seen in Jesus’ tenderness toward children: “Let the children come to Me, do not hinder them.” This gives us the hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism.
(Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1261)

While most people refer to paragraph 1261, my favorite is paragraph 1257 because its last line includes everyone, especially children lost through miscarriage or abortion. While most people talk about God’s mercy, I like to think about God’s common sense when it comes to out-of-the-ordinary events. God provides for these difficult events, especially when they involve innocent life in the womb. Think about the last sentence in paragraph 1257 to understand what I am saying about God’s overwhelming love.

“God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but He Himself is not bound by His sacraments.”

This is a link to the Catechism of the Catholic Church www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
Put the paragraph number in the search box and you can enter the Catechism at that point.

Blessings,
granny

Spring is God’s message of faith in the future.

 

[NotWorthy]

This is my favorite dilemma. Because it has such a happy solution.

What you said about trusting in God is seen in Jesus’ tenderness toward children: “Let the children come to Me, do not hinder them.” This gives us the hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism.
(Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1261)

While most people refer to paragraph 1261, my favorite is paragraph 1257 because its last line includes everyone, especially children lost through miscarriage or abortion. While most people talk about God’s mercy, I like to think about God’s common sense when it comes to out-of-the-ordinary events. God provides for these difficult events, especially when they involve innocent life in the womb. Think about the last sentence in paragraph 1257 to understand what I am saying about God’s overwhelming love.

“God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but He Himself is not bound by His sacraments.”

This is a link to the Catechism of the Catholic Church www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
Put the paragraph number in the search box and you can enter the Catechism at that point.

Blessings,
granny

Spring is God’s message of faith in the future.

God has common sense?!? Then explain the mosquito to me, please!

Seriously, thanks for the info. (I think that) my thoughts on the “innocent children” who would have been slain by the Israelites would fit into this teaching.

 

[buffalo]

Thanks for clearing that up!

Now, back to the context of the OP, according to all you’ve just posted, the innocent babies would not fit under that category, since they haven’t had a chance to live their lives. I know the Church is silent on these matters, for example aborted children. So, I guess, all we can do is opine and trust in the Will of God. Of course, that 2nd little caveat is a little tough for an athiest; hence, I can only resort to opining.

One point to remember - God is perfectly just.

 

[NotWorthy]

One point to remember - God is perfectly just.

True! But, personally, I pray for His Mercy over His Justice!