Old Testament debate question

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

How can you respond to someone who thinks that since the “God of the Old Testament” is a “jealous, angry, and petty being” that “ordered murder, death, and rape” that that disproves religion (of any kind - in particular Christianity)?

How can we positively relate the Old Testament to those who are admittedly atheistic and ‘scientific’ (the way they use it is a complete misnomer, but that is for another thread)?

 

[Della]

If you can even get him/her to listen to reason–if s/he isn’t just using these claims as any-stick-that-will-do, then I would ask for particular instances (especially of rape, which I’ve never heard of) and go from there.

You also need to know some historical background for the events being described in the various books of the OT which span thousands of years, each with its own author writing what he understood at the time.

Lumping the whole of the OT into one category shows ignorance, or laziness, or bias, or ill-will. You have to discover which one applies to your objector. Good luck!

 

[Chancellor]

Before I say anything else I affirm that I am an Orthodox Roman Catholic who believes in the inspiration and value of both the Old and New Testaments.

Now. The Hebrew scriptures, our Old Testament, at times depicts God in a highly unfavorable light. When we come to understand that the OT is a collection of stories, teaching tales, history, devotion, poetry, remembrance, dire warnings, wit, allegory, etc., in short, when we accept the Hebrew Scriptures for what they are: the epic of a people in relationship with Almighty God, we can begin to appreciate the complexity and depth of the narratives.

If, on the other hand, we insist on a literal fundamentalist position then we are forced to accept the full historical accuracy of the OT texts. If “inerrant” in the fundamentalist sense then we have to accept that God has had some very bad days and that when He is irritated he gets homicidal.

Fundamentalists trying to defend as history some of the tales about God in the OT are like codependant children in an abusive alcoholic family trying to excuse a raging drunken father by saying, “its OK, we made him mad”.

The Chancellor

 

[Della]

We also have to keep in mind that all people are God’s creation. We are his to do with as he pleases. We all live and die with his fore-knowledge. The OT is mainly concerned with God’s justice, God’s honor, God’s triumph over evil nations fighting against the holy nation of Israel. It’s also about that holy nation failing God and sinning and in its turn experiencing the justice and wrath of God, as well as others.

God is not only loving, he is also just. Jesus satisfied the justice of God which is why we live in the age of grace instead of the age of justice. The OT is the prelude within God’s plan to satisfy his own justice. He did so through various means, most especially the Law of Moses. God’s wrath came down upon nations due to their hardness of heart, shown by their worship of gods besides himself. St. Paul wrote that they were without excuse since the evidence of God’s existence and power is in creation itself. IOW, they should have easily deduced that there is only one God and made every effort to worship him alone. That they didn’t shows they should have known better, especially since everyone in existence is the descendant of the same original parents to whom God spoke. Men invented gods to satisfy his own desires instead of worshiping the one true God.

The law and its sacrifices were only temporal, not eternal, which is why a divine person, Christ, was needed to satisfy it. As Paul says, “in the fullness of time God sent his Son”. Therefore the Incarnation brought about the end of the OT God holding the nations accountable in his justice and made possible the outpouring of God’s grace upon the whole world, not just upon Israel and those friendly to it.

As I think I mentioned, this is a complex topic. One that cannot be answered in a nice glib sentence or two. It deals with history and how God was leading up to the Redemption of all men, preparing the world for it through the Law of Moses and by keeping Israel pure and true to its purpose, which sometimes entailed fighting pagans and heathens in order to do that.

I can’t think of a book on the topic that would help your friend understand all this (hopefully better than I can explain it here). My college days are far behind me, so I cannot make any recommendations, but I suggest you look into it.

 

[fewnotmany]

How can we positively relate the Old Testament to those who are admittedly atheistic and ‘scientific’?

Pr 20:12
The hearing ear and the seeing eye, The LORD has made both * of them.

If God doesn’t reveal the Truth of the Holy Spirit to them, there is nothing you can do to open their eyes or make them hear.

From my personal experience, I don’t fellowship with non-believers.