Old Testament God vs. Jesus?

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It was asked of me how one can reconcile the Old Testament God that looked for the stoning of adulterers and other sinners and who encouraged the Israelites to enter Canaan and kill their enemies with a forgiving Jesus who forgives sinners and tells us to love our enemies. Does anyone know where I can find a good response to this question? Thanks!
 
Hi, Teller44,

It’s a good question…a fair question, I think.

I haven’t got a clue as to how to address it, but I hope
that others on the forum will respond.

I’ll be interested in reading any responses,

Best wishes,

reen12
 
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Teller44:
It was asked of me how one can reconcile the Old Testament God that looked for the stoning of adulterers and other sinners and who encouraged the Israelites to enter Canaan and kill their enemies with a forgiving Jesus who forgives sinners and tells us to love our enemies. Does anyone know where I can find a good response to this question? Thanks!
Hmmm, God may advocate temporal punishmemt in the OT, but Jesus talks about casting people into eternal flames over and over again. Remember, God has revealed more and more of Himself over time. Temporal punishment for sin taught people how bad sin was. Check out this link showing how Jesus wasn’t sugar coated:

geocities.com/Athens/Forum/3325/unforgiven.html
 
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Teller44:
It was asked of me how one can reconcile the Old Testament God that looked for the stoning of adulterers and other sinners and who encouraged the Israelites to enter Canaan and kill their enemies with a forgiving Jesus who forgives sinners and tells us to love our enemies. Does anyone know where I can find a good response to this question? Thanks!

One possible answer, is that God was educating His people. Education can’t be rushed: people are not empty vessels waiting for knowledge to be poured in; but human beings, who live in specific cultures, who react to their surroundings in specific ways, because they have specific sets of ideas about their place in the world. To educate someone, affects the whole personality of the person being educated.​

A baby with two teeth can’t be rushed and forced into having the complete set. It must grow organically, at a pace proper to its rate of development. Someone said being Christian is an education - St. Paul compares it to growing up from infancy to adulthood

Something similar happens with nations - such as Israel. Its spiritual growth couldn’t be forced; it had to grow at a pace proper to its rate of development. And just as parents want their children to grow up (growing is meant to end in being full-grown, after all), but put up with their far from mature behaviour in the meantime, so God does with ours, and did with Israel’s.

At the stage you mention, Israel knew God had made a covenant with it: God had entered into a relationship with Israel which was not shared with any other nation: IOW, Israel was special. But this meant that other nations were not special - and a practical result of that, might be (and often was) attempting to destroy them.

Later on, Israel’s history taught it that there was more to being in a special relationship with God than killing those who weren’t: to have this covenant relationship, meant Israel had been chosen by God as His servant, to do His Will; which was, to share with others the good things God had given it. And the supreme example of such service, is in Jesus, Who came not to be served, but to serve - He is what Israel had been growing up to. He is Israel personified, in concentrated form; God’s Servant & Son, just as Israel was - as St. Matthew & St Luke hint, by applying to Him so much of what is said in the OT about Israel.

Because Israel was privileged, it had responsibilities too. The covenant is the same; what differs, is the lesson drawn from awareness of it. Because Israel has been growing up over the centuries, it was learning to know God better than it first did; knowing Him better, it behaves differently.

Because God is being faithful to His covenant, and because our ability to discern His Will is limited, the demands of His covenant may differ from one time to another. Some things do not change, such as the obligation to deal rightly with one another: what may well change, is our understanding of what this involves. As in the difference between slaughtering and serving others. God is consistent in what He requires - we are capable of knowing Him ever more deeply, & are limited in all sorts of ways: so we need to grow in knowing Him, and in knowing how to respond to Him. And Jesus shows us how to respond to God: with unlimited love & total, self-sacrificing obedience. ##
 
Hi, Genesis315

quote: Genesis315
**
but Jesus talks about casting people into eternal flames over and over again.

I wonder if He said that to scare the h*** out of us.☘️

Best regards, 👋
reen12 **
 
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Teller44:
It was asked of me how one can reconcile the Old Testament God … with a forgiving Jesus …
IIRC some of the Gnostic sects even went so far as to believe that they were separate gods
personally that is just one question that I have never been able to reconcile.

I don’t know how the literalist do it
 
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reen12:
Hi, Genesis315

quote: Genesis315

I wonder if He said that to scare the h
* out** of us.☘️

**Best regards, 👋 **
**reen12 **
Well, definitely, but it wasn’t an idle threat either. I think it’s the same idea with temporal punishment in the OT. It gave people a way to understand the serious consequence of sin.

It’s like when kids are really, really young. You can’t verbally explain to them why something is wrong. You make them sit on the corner and that’s how they learn. As they get older, you can talk to them about it and explain the seriousness of their actions.

I think we see the people of God “mature” so to speak and therefore we see things taught differently. Just my totally made-up-just-now theory 😃
 
quote:** Genesis 315**
I think we see the people of God “mature” so to speak and therefore we see things taught differently. Just my totally made-up-just-now theory 😃
😃 😃

:tiphat:
reen12
 
You may want to look into the progression from Natural Law (written into our hearts), to Written Law (10 Commandments) to Divine Law (teachings of Jesus). I think I remember reading about it in the book “Scripture Matters” by Scott Hahn. This may also help:

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a1.htm#1954
 
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Teller44:
It was asked of me how one can reconcile the Old Testament God that looked for the stoning of adulterers and other sinners and who encouraged the Israelites to enter Canaan and kill their enemies with a forgiving Jesus who forgives sinners and tells us to love our enemies. Does anyone know where I can find a good response to this question? Thanks!
I was reading Denzinger’s last night, and came across a passage from a council (It wasan early one) in which it was said (paraphrasing- I do not have the book with me):

‘If anyone says that the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament are not the same, let him be an anathema.’

It really does not answer your question directly, but it is an interesting point. The Church has no qualms about it. I would search the Fathers for these answers.

Mark
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com
 
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Teller44:
It was asked of me how one can reconcile the Old Testament God that looked for the stoning of adulterers and other sinners and who encouraged the Israelites to enter Canaan and kill their enemies with a forgiving Jesus who forgives sinners and tells us to love our enemies. Does anyone know where I can find a good response to this question? Thanks!
Hello Teller,

It is God in Old Testament who commands us to love our neighbor as ourselves and take no revenge.

NAB LEV 19:17

"You shall not bear hatred for your brother in your heart. Though you may have to reprove your fellow man, do not incur sin because of him. Take no revenge and cherish no grudge against your fellow countrymen. You shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD."
God is merciful and forgiving in Old Testament. Please visit God is Merciful in Old Testament

NAB JOE 2:12

Yet even now, says the LORD, return to me with your whole heart, with fasting, and weeping, and mourning; Rend your hearts, not your garments, and return to the LORD, your God. **For gracious and merciful is he, slow to anger, rich in kindness, and relenting in punishment. **Jesus swears to the Apostles that if they bind a man to sin on earth, He will bind that man to sin in heaven. We know that we must have all our sins forgiven in order to enter heavan. What do you think happens to a person when Jesus, in heaven, binds their soul to sin? Personally I would rather be physcially stoned or killed in battle than to have Jesus bind my soul to sin in heaven. Please visit Throwing Stones

NAB JOH 20:20

At the sight of the Lord the disciples rejoiced. “Peace be with you,” he said again. “As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” Then he breathed on them and said: "Recieve the Holy Spirit. If you forgive men’s sins, they are forgiven them; if you hold them bound, they are held bound."
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Genesis315:
Hmmm, God may advocate temporal punishmemt in the OT, but Jesus talks about casting people into eternal flames over and over again. Remember, God has revealed more and more of Himself over time. Temporal punishment for sin taught people how bad sin was. Check out this link showing how Jesus wasn’t sugar coated:

geocities.com/Athens/Forum/3325/unforgiven.html
Thanks for the link Genesis
 
Someone pointed out to me recently that in the Books of Exodus the Lord established the “eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth” methodology, then refuted in the Person of Christ in the New Testament. Insofar as God refuting His own established Law is contradictory, I’d also be interested in seeing a trained apologist stop by and address this.

It might be better if one of the “Ask the Apologist” experts were summoned so a Catholic who finds this a stumbling block does not receive conflicting information from someone who may not be fully versed on the topic.
 
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