Old Testament Knowledge

[PMAC27]

Many times in the Gospel, references are made to the Old Testament about things coming true that were foretold by the prophets.

How would you respond to a person who says that it is possible that Jesus studied the Old Testament and put plans in motion that that these prophesies were fulfilled? ie: The prophesies did not really come true but were made to look like they were so as to get people to believe.

 

[smichhertz]

Some of the prophecies were telling where Jesus would be born, and that He was born of a virgin, etc. Obviously, Jesus couldn’t control that.

 

[William_Pitts]

There are suppose to be about 400 prophecies concerning the Messiah-published in “The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah” by Eerdmans pp.160-163… God gave us all of these prophecies concerning the Messiah, to make the identity of the Messiah obvious and to make an impostor’s task Impossible.

 

[cargau]

Some of the prophecies were telling where Jesus would be born, and that He was born of a virgin, etc. Obviously, Jesus couldn’t control that.

The reference to Bethlehem may have been a prophesy regarding the emergence of a Davidic king since David hailed from Bethlehem.

Then there is the whole “Almah” controversy regarding the term virgin. Almah is Hebrew for young girl. Pathenos is Greek for virgin. There are Greek words that could have meant “young girl” and Hebrew words that could mean “virgin”. This is particularly dicey in Isaiah 7:14. Also, it is possible that the prophesy was not indicating a Messianic birth but again a royal birth. In fact, the new translation of the NAB (NABRE) uses the term young girl…

There really is no slam dunk!

 

[marica_mandic]

There are suppose to be about 400 prophecies concerning the Messiah-published in “The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah” by Eerdmans pp.160-163… God gave us all of these prophecies concerning the Messiah, to make the identity of the Messiah obvious and to make an impostor’s task Impossible.

Jesus did nothing wrong. Every person make mistakes. No one can done so nice speech as Jesus, all is so perfect.

 

[Juda3]

This video will explain why. please ONLY comment on this video after seeing the WHOLE movie. It is 123min but it is great. Life changing!
video.google.com/videoplay?do…5277695921912#

 

[Kaninchen]

Many times in the Gospel, references are made to the Old Testament about things coming true that were foretold by the prophets.

How would you respond to a person who says that it is possible that Jesus studied the Old Testament and put plans in motion that that these prophesies were fulfilled? ie: The prophesies did not really come true but were made to look like they were so as to get people to believe.

As a Jew who has often argued here that the NT was ‘constructed’ to make Jesus fit as Messiah, I think it is something of a problem that Christians have in arguing with people who don’t see the NT as any kind of accurate record of what was going on.

It really does come down to what one thinks of the NT and whether there are links to certain key passages of the Tanakh (Old Testament) - here I’m thinking of things like the ‘suffering servant’.

Otherwise many of the prophesies are pretty nebulous (what I call the: Ezekiel ZZ:12 “the anointed will stub his toe”, Luke WW:34 “and Jesus stubbed his toe” ‘prophesies’) or could be contrived, like the story of the trip to Bethlehem.

Meanwhile, a serious problem with arguing about ‘proof text’ issues is that the hot air generated on both sides in the process could be a major contributor to global warming.

 

[tonyrey]

As a Jew who has often argued here that the NT was ‘constructed’ to make Jesus fit as Messiah, I think it is something of a problem that Christians have in arguing with people who don’t see the NT as any kind of accurate record of what was going on.

Jesus didn’t fit the orthodox Jewish concept of the Messiah!

It really does come down to what one thinks of the NT and whether there are links to certain key passages of the Tanakh (Old Testament) - here I’m thinking of things like the ‘suffering servant’.

Otherwise many of the prophesies are pretty nebulous (what I call the: Ezekiel ZZ:12 “the anointed will stub his toe”, Luke WW:34 “and Jesus stubbed his toe” ‘prophesies’) or could be contrived, like the story of the trip to Bethlehem.

It is difficult to write off Psalm 22 and Isaiah as nebulous… Neither did they fit the orthodox Jewish concept of the Messiah…

 

[Kaninchen]

Jesus didn’t fit the orthodox Jewish concept of the Messiah!

Hence the ‘biting bits off the jigsaw pieces’ to make them fit feeling some of us get - Jesus fulfilled everything that could be fulfilled by manipulating text, the rest being consigned to the ‘second coming’.

It seems to me that the early Christians believed that Jesus was coming back soon but by the time the NT was compiled, the emphasis had moved towards converting Gentiles, ‘orthodox’ Jews hadn’t bought it. Given that the Jewish world was descending into the chaos and eventual catastrophe, Jesus as ‘Messiah’ had to be an entirely different kind of ‘Messiah’ from the one expected and the NT reflects that.

It is difficult to write off Psalm 22 and Isaiah as nebulous… Neither did they fit the orthodox Jewish concept of the Messiah…

I did say that there were certain key concepts but, of course, we’re back to the question of how the whole business was ‘written up’.

The thing about ‘proof texts’ is that it always degenerates into ‘Oh Yes It Is’/‘Oh No It Isn’t’.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Many times in the Gospel, references are made to the Old Testament about things coming true that were foretold by the prophets.

How would you respond to a person who says that it is possible that Jesus studied the Old Testament and put plans in motion that that these prophesies were fulfilled? ie: The prophesies did not really come true but were made to look like they were so as to get people to believe.

Many Prophecies involve things that Jesus could not control. Birth place, name, etc.Many prophecies were very specific. As in place, time, quantity. You should check out Messianic Prophecy and and the mathematical odds. There are a lot of resources on the net. Check out “Science Speaks” Dr. Stoner, mathematician. Messianic Prophecy is mathematical proof beyond any reasonable doubt that Christ is the Messiah.

 

[shoe]

Some of the prophecies were telling where Jesus would be born, and that He was born of a virgin, etc. Obviously, Jesus couldn’t control that.

I think that is really a good point. It’s difficult to imagine that the Child in the womb could put plans in motion of the timing of His birth, of the way in which His birth was to happen, and of being born of the lineage of King David. And then 33 years later to set into motion the plans to have Judas Iscariot betray Him for a bribe of 30 pieces of silver, to have strangers mock and spit at Him, to get the Roman soldiers to cast lots (dice) to see who would win His clothing, and to die by crucifixion. All these prophecies fulfilled by Jesus were obviously beyond human control.