On a cellular or biological level Is the Eucharist still bread?

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On a cellular or biological level is the Eucharist still bread? In other words, if a chemist was to examine the host, would it still be the same as it was before the consecration? And if so, how is the Catholic Eucharist different from the Lutheran Eucharist, which says that it is bread and Jesus?
I believe the Eucharist is whatever Jesus meant when he said “this is my body”, but I don’t know exactly what he meant.
 
On a cellular level, it is bread – the substance of the bread changes to the flesh of Christ. It is the flesh of Christ in bread form. “The Mystery of Faaaiiith.”

The difference between Lutheran’s and Catholics is that 1) Lutherans do not have apostolic succession, do not have the authority to perform Mass and pray over the host for the change of the substance. 2) Lutherans don’t believe in transubstantiation. They believe in CONsubstantiation (Christ WITH the bread) – in other words, the bread remains bread, but Christ is with it, but not in body, blood, soul, and divinity.

There have been miracles where the bread becomes actual, biological flesh and blood. The last recorded miracle approved by the Church, the blood they found within the eucharist was that of cardial blood (blood from the heart).
 
Julian22 said:
And if so, how is the Catholic Eucharist different from the Lutheran Eucharist, which says that it is bread and Jesus?
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The Lutheran ‘Eucharist’, in its substance and accidents, is still bread.
 
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gcshapero said:
The last recorded miracle approved by the Church, the blood they found within the eucharist was that of cardial blood (blood from the heart)
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We should map the genome of that sample. Perhaps there are medical breakthroughs waiting us 🤔
 
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Julian22 said:
On a cellular or biological level is the Eucharist still bread? In other words, if a chemist was to examine the host, would it still be the same as it was before the consecration?
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The short answer is: No. On a cellular or biological level, the Eucharist is not bread.

The Catechism states

1377 The Eucharistic presence of Christ begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the Eucharistic species subsist. Christ is present whole and entire in each of the species and whole and entire in each of their parts, in such a way that the breaking of the bread does not divide Christ.

Another way of saying “the Eucharistic species subsist” is to say “the Eucharistic species is discernible or recognizable as bread [or wine]”.

Is a cell of wheat protein or a molecule of gluten recognized as bread? If so, then the real presence persists, and it is not bread, just as the consecrated host is no longer bread (though in this case, both subjects appear to be bread).

If not (which I would say is the case), then the real presence does not remain. This is why digestion, eg, does not result in bits of the real presence becoming parts of our own bodies (nor expelled as waste) – Digestion reduces the real food we eat into component parts which are no longer discernible as that food.

Were a chemist to examine the consecrated host, it would appear to be the same as the unconsecrated host. The level of focus would determine whether the real presence persists – Is our hypothetical chemist examining a crumb or particle of (apparent) bread? Or is she examining a molecule of starch?
 
But Lutherans believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.
 
Julian22 said:
But Lutherans believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.
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And, many kids believe in Santa Clause. Perhaps Christ is mysteriously present in the Lutheran Eucharist, but it would not be the same as in the Catholic Eucharist.
 
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I think Lutherans lack the proper form. The celebrant must be 'in Persona Christi".
 
I think what you meant to say is that Lutherans are simply mistaken, at least that would have been a more polite response. So, would you say that Lutherans who are following the command of Jesus to “do this in remembrance of me” and who believe Jesus’ words “this is my body”, are believing in something that doesn’t exist?
The reason I asked the question in the first place is that I don’t see a difference between the Catholic Eucharist and the Lutheran Eucharist, since the host is still bread either way, when examined by a chemist who didn’t know what they were examining. I don’t understand how Catholics can say that the Eucharist of some other denomination is not what that denomination believes it to be, what Jesus said it is. If this point of dogma is something that is keeping Lutherans from being in full unity with Catholics, I don’t see why, since it looks to me that we actually believe the same thing.
 
Julian22 said:
The reason I asked the question in the first place is that I don’t see a difference between the Catholic Eucharist and the Lutheran Eucharist, since the host is still bread either way, when examined by a chemist who didn’t know what they were examining.
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I hope you did not infer that from what I wrote. It surely is not what I meant.

The Eucharist will appear to be bread no matter who examines it, whether they know and/or believe in transubstantiation or not.
 
Julian22 said:
So, would you say that Lutherans who are following the command of Jesus to “do this in remembrance of me” and who believe Jesus’ words “this is my body”, are believing in something that doesn’t exist?
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Well, “do this in remembrance of me” means to offer this, i.e. sacrifice My Body and Blood on an altar in remembrance and commemoration of my perpetual Pascal Sacrifice that is made present at every Holy Mass. Not only do Lutherans not believe in that, but they do not have a valid priesthood to consecrate the bread and wine. So, merely believing in something does not make it so. However, that does not mean that Christ can be mystically present to Lutherans in ways known and unknown to us. But, He is not present in the same Eucharistic way that He is in the Catholic Church. 😃
 
Last year, on the 500th anniversary of Luther’s 95 theses, the Lutheran Catholic Commission for Unity issued From Conflict to Communion that examined issues that still divide Catholics and Lutherans, while affirming the many things that unite us.

Paragraph 154 says:
“Lutherans and Catholics can together affirm the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Lord’s Supper: “In the Sacrament of the Lord’s Supper Jesus Christ true God and true man, is present wholly and entirely, in his Body and Blood, under the signs of bread and wine” (Eucharist 16). This common statement affirms all the essential elements of faith in the eucharistic presence of Jesus Christ without adopting the conceptual terminology of transubstantiation. Thus Catholics and Lutherans understand that “the exalted Lord is present in the Lord’s Supper in the body and blood he gave with his divinity and his humanity through the word of promise in the gifts of bread and wine in the power of the Holy Spirit for reception through the congregation.””

IOW, Catholics and Lutherans affirm each other’s Eucharist, though they still have issues like apostolic succession, the nature of sacrifice, the meaning of substantiation, etc. Those disagreements do not mean the same Eucharist is not celebrated in Catholic and Lutheran churches. Christ gives himself to the members of both denominations in their celebrations of the Lord’s Supper.
 
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