On being born AGAIN

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‘Unless a man might be BORN AGAIN of Water and the Spirit - he will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven’. If this applies to the ‘unknowingness’ of those that die ‘in utero’ and the questionability of their salvation, should not the first condition be at least considered and met (ie. to be born for the FIRST time?).😦
 
Look at the good Thief who died along Christ, he has not been baptised in water, well hard to say about the Spirit, but still he surely entered the Kingdom of Heaven, Jesus told him so.
 
Look at the good Thief who died along Christ, he has not been baptised in water, well hard to say about the Spirit, but still he surely entered the Kingdom of Heaven, Jesus told him so.
Neither did he received the Holy Spirit. Catholics would understand this as “baptism of blood.”

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states the following:

*1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."63 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"64 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.*

Second, I like to add that Jesus said, “On this day, you will be with me in paradise.”

Well, he was not actually on paradise on that day. When they did died, Jesus for three days preached to the dead and the thief was one of them. They were not in heaven because heaven was not open yet.

The Patriarchs and the Holy saints of the OT before Jesus Christ coming, were in a waiting place. The Creed states that Jesus descended into the dead and on the third day, he rose again.

Let me continue, during those 2 days in place of the dead, the thief was there. Jesus went to preached and open the Gates of Heaven, and brought everyone from Hades up into heaven, like Adam, Eve, Abraham, Moses, and Patriarchs.
 
Look at the good Thief who died along Christ, he has not been baptised in water, well hard to say about the Spirit, but still he surely entered the Kingdom of Heaven, Jesus told him so.
One thing to keep in mind was that St Dismas ( the good theif) died before the requirement of Baptism was given by Christ (in Mt 28 - the Great Commission)

The good theif was redeemed the same way as David and Abraham were, by the fillfulling of the Old Covenant.
 
Thanks for your replies and faith! However, whilst I have come to the conclusion that it is indeed on God’s mercy and compassion that we have to rely on in such circumstances, I came across this scripture I referred to above and wondered in light of what Jesus was speaking about here, how this might simply not apply to the unbaptised/unborn babies that die before they are born - hence the thought one must be born for the first time before one can be born again. Any thoughts? Just curious and not looking for a debate, just reflection…🙂
 
Thanks for your replies and faith! However, whilst I have come to the conclusion that it is indeed on God’s mercy and compassion that we have to rely on in such circumstances, I came across this scripture I referred to above and wondered in light of what Jesus was speaking about here, how this might simply not apply to the unbaptised/unborn babies that die before they are born - hence the thought one must be born for the first time before one can be born again. Any thoughts? Just curious and not looking for a debate, just reflection…🙂
The word used for “born again” can also be translated as “born from above”, which according to the footnotes in my NAB is what Jesus meant and was misunderstood by Nicodemus. That should help to answer your concern.
 
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