On kneeling during the consecration

[5Loaves]

I’m reminded of the Holy Father, as he travels, sitting through Masses with the most atrocious music. I found it really rather amusing that the Mass yesterday in the Czech Republic was in Latin with lots of incense etc and the music was like a contemporary youth Mass. It was absolutely jarring. We’re all familiar with his interest in recovering the real intent of the Second Vatican council, the “reform of the reform” as it’s being called. But one sees him sitting there in these Masses with a glow on his face during all of it. He clearly sees a bigger picture and celebrates these Masses with joy whatever apparent strangeness may be going on by those who’ve planned the liturgy.

Believe me Scylla, I too have serious challenges with posture issues and other issues. I talk with my spiritual father and I do really believe in accepting the authority of my priest. At times it has not been easy to stick with the parish I feel I have committed to. I just keep praying for all our priests with love and gratitude. We’ve had many different priests saying Mass. They each have a slightly different way of handling the use of the EMHC. As EMHC we nearly all take the tack of doing whatever is necessary to draw no attention to ourselves and to be as supportive of the visiting priest as possible.

And it is not easy for them. They’re surrounded by discontent and disinterested parishioners etc. I really don’t know how they can bear saying the Mass facing the people, knowing what they are looking out at much of the time. They have to really dig deep, and they generally get very minimal support. God bless them every one.

I encourage you to pray with no agenda other than love for the priest you have difficulties with.

 

[martinpaul12]

Hi scylla,

Well,It has to do with the slow recovery of the importance of the eucharistic prayer in the
Mass. We are talking about the prayer that begins with “The Lord be with you,” “Lift up
your hearts” and ends with the Great Amen. This is one prayer. It has an integrity of its
own; and it is important not to single out one moment or part (such as the moment or
words of consecration) as more important than the rest. To underline that integrity it is
best to take the same bodily posture during the entire prayer. The eucharistic prayer is
basically a prayer of praise and thanksgiving (even if it includes an intercessory part),
and as a prayer of praise and thanksgiving it calls for the bodily posture of standing.
Moreover it is a communal prayer, a prayer of the community even if it is proclaimed
by the presider. As a communal prayer it calls for all to take the same bodily posture.

At the heart of the sacrament of unity (which the eucharist is) we would not want to be
doing different things.

Thanks

 

[scylla]

Hi scylla,

Well,It has to do with the slow recovery of the importance of the eucharistic prayer in the
Mass. We are talking about the prayer that begins with “The Lord be with you,” “Lift up
your hearts” and ends with the Great Amen. This is one prayer. It has an integrity of its
own; and it is important not to single out one moment or part (such as the moment or
words of consecration) as more important than the rest. To underline that integrity it is
best to take the same bodily posture during the entire prayer. The eucharistic prayer is
basically a prayer of praise and thanksgiving (even if it includes an intercessory part),
and as a prayer of praise and thanksgiving it calls for the bodily posture of standing.
Moreover it is a communal prayer, a prayer of the community even if it is proclaimed
by the presider. As a communal prayer it calls for all to take the same bodily posture.

At the heart of the sacrament of unity (which the eucharist is) we would not want to be
doing different things.

Thanks

I am pretty sure the Real Presence of Jesus trumps our praise so that we acknowledge the presence of the King by kneeling.
So by the unity logic, if the congregation kneels as a server I should kneel… correct?
The only one who stands is the Priest.
God Bless,
Scylla

 

[diggerdomer]

I am pretty sure the Real Presence of Jesus trumps our praise so that we acknowledge the presence of the King by kneeling.
So by the unity logic, if the congregation kneels as a server I should kneel… correct?
The only one who stands is the Priest.
God Bless,
Scylla

Jesus is really present in many ways during liturgy. By that logic, then, we would kneel the entire time. REmember, too, we don’t just pray to (or at) Jesus, we also pray with Him.

 

[scylla]

Jesus is really present in many ways during liturgy. By that logic, then, we would kneel the entire time. REmember, too, we don’t just pray to (or at) Jesus, we also pray with Him.

You are right He is present, but He is physically made present during the consecration. He comes in to the room and is there in front of us.
I am not too sure if many people really believe that is a fact, that the Lord of the Universe makes Himself present during the Consecration.

At one point it is just us as the Body of Christ with God spiritually present… then Jesus the King of the Universe enters. We kneel for the King, that is what we have developed as a response to Jesus being made present. (in the Latin Rite)

To try and go back to what early Christians did would be the heresy of antiquarianism, wouldn’t it? Correct me if I am wrong.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[diggerdomer]

You are right He is present, but He is physically made present during the consecration. He comes in to the room and is there in front of us.
I am not too sure if many people really believe that is a fact, that the Lord of the Universe makes Himself present during the Consecration.

He is physically present in the assembly, priest, and Word proclaimed as well.

Whether antiquarianism is a heresy depends on precisely what you mean by that word. The fact that we do many things the early Christians (and Jesus Himself) did is of course not heretical.

 

[scylla]

He is physically present in the assembly, priest, and Word proclaimed as well.

Whether antiquarianism is a heresy depends on precisely what you mean by that word. The fact that we do many things the early Christians (and Jesus Himself) did is of course not heretical.

I agree that our similarities to the early Christians are not heretical in any way, but to reject our development of practice to try and return to early practice is wrong, as explained better by the Pope in Mediator Dei.

There is a huge, huge difference in the presence of Jesus in the assembly, the Priest and the Word proclaimed, or I might as well worship with the Protestants.

I agree that He is present in any Christian assembly, in the proclaimed Word and in the Priest who stands in the person of Christ. Yet in the Eucharist, He is present Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, a gigantic difference, so much that we adore God who blesses us with His Presence.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[PJM]

=diggerdomer;5758030]He is physically present in the assembly, priest, and Word proclaimed as well.

Whether antiquarianism is a heresy depends on precisely what you mean by that word. The fact that we do many things the early Christians (and Jesus Himself) did is of course not heretical.

NO!

Christ is PHYSICALLY present in the Most Holy Catholic Communion, BUT ONLY spiritually present in the priest, and the assembly. When the priest is made [transformed miracoulsly by the Holy Spirit for the instant of "Transubstantiation "]; then yes, for this instant only is God physically present outside of the sacred Host.

Love and prayers.

 

[diggerdomer]

NO!

Christ is PHYSICALLY present in the Most Holy Catholic Communion, BUT ONLY spiritually present in the priest, and the assembly. When the priest is made [transformed miracoulsly by the Holy Spirit for the instant of "Transubstantiation "]; then yes, for this instant only is God physically present outside of the sacred Host.

Love and prayers.

I should have avoided the word “physically” – even the presence in Communion is not simply “physical.”