On Mary: What is the earliest reference to Mary devotion you know of?

[LilyM]

I see all the honor due to Mary, but doesn’t the above passage, and those similar prayers/devotions seem a little blasphemous? Does this trouble anyone? “Only pure, only blessed one”?! What about Jesus!? He’s the only pure, only blessed one.

Also, why would Mary have needed grace if she were sinless. The more sin, the more grace given, right? That’s what the Bible teaches.So why would we assume that by Gabriel’s announcing her “full of grace” that that would mean she was sinless? I would think that just means God is letting go her due punishment (like he does to all of those he forgives and pours out his grace upon).

Also, I’ve heard the argument that it meant she was preserved from the stain of original sin. But that doesn’t mean of actual sin, right? The immaculate conception might free her from the inherited sin, but she would still have a human soul/spirit that would potentially sin like anyone else, right? Please explain…and I mean no disrespect, I’m just trying to make the right decision here on if I should convert, but this is huge. Maybe all those apparitions of her were Satan’s tricks to get people to focus on her, or on prayers, or works/wearing medals, etc, rather than focusing on Him and his amazing sacrifice that gives us eternal life and freedom from sin/guilt. Satan would like the attention getting diverted from God it would seem.

Mary is the only all-pure and all-blessed ‘mere mortal’, if you can put it that way. Rather like when Paul says ‘all have sinned’ it is self-evident that Jesus is outside the category and need not specifically be excepted from it.

Jesus, being divine, is outside of the category of ‘all pure and all blessed’ too. Being God He GIVES blessing, He doesn’t receive it, which the word ‘blessed’ implies. And He is in fact pureness incarnate, so He couldn’t rightly be described as merely ‘all-pure’ or ‘all-blessed’.

And there’s a whole lot more to Mary’s Immaculate Conception and perpetual sinlessness than the passages you have quoted. Do some more study on the subject, particularly read ‘Ineffabilis Deus’, the encyclical which proclaims the dogma, and check up the other documents and scripture passages it references as well.

Take your time about examining those aspects of Catholicism you are unsure of. And remember that we are NOT required to believe in or pay attention to Marian apparitions, nor do the apparitions have the slightest thing to do with the Marian doctrines or any other doctrine or dogma of the faith.

 

[NotWorthy]

Do you have the resource on this info? That’d be great!

It’s part of tradition, I believe it was done in India? This tradition does have its doubters.

 

[NotWorthy]

I see all the honor due to Mary, but doesn’t the above passage, and those similar prayers/devotions seem a little blasphemous?

Questions like this have a tendency to derail threads. If Lily’s answers, which are done so well as always, don’t give you the necessary comfort, how about starting a new thread.

 

[peary]

I see all the honor due to Mary, but doesn’t the above passage, and those similar prayers/devotions seem a little blasphemous? Does this trouble anyone? “Only pure, only blessed one”?! What about Jesus!? He’s the only pure, only blessed one.

The are only two times in the bible where someone is referred to as “full of grace” - one specifically with regard to Mary in Luke, and the other, of course, with regard to Jesus throughout Scripture.

Also, why would Mary have needed grace if she were sinless. The more sin, the more grace given, right? That’s what the Bible teaches.So why would we assume that by Gabriel’s announcing her “full of grace” that that would mean she was sinless? I would think that just means God is letting go her due punishment (like he does to all of those he forgives and pours out his grace upon).

The presence of God’s grace = the less presence of sin. To be “filled with grace” means exactly what it says: no sin. The Bible also teaches us (as does the Church) that Mary herself needed a Redeemer even though she bore the Redeemer. She says as much in her prayer called the Magnificat. So, if Gabriel, as a Messenger of God, and with the Words of the eternal God on his own lips, addressed Mary “full of grace” in the present tense, then one has to figure out exactly when this gift was given to her by God? At what point in her life did she become “full of grace”?
Also, I’ve heard the argument that it meant she was preserved from the stain of original sin. But that doesn’t mean of actual sin, right? The immaculate conception might free her from the inherited sin, but she would still have a human soul/spirit that would potentially sin like anyone else, right? Please explain…and I mean no disrespect, I’m just trying to make the right decision here on if I should convert, but this is huge. Maybe all those apparitions of her were Satan’s tricks to get people to focus on her, or on prayers, or works/wearing medals, etc, rather than focusing on Him and his amazing sacrifice that gives us eternal life and freedom from sin/guilt. Satan would like the attention getting diverted from God it would seem.

 

[Canto]

I see all the honor due to Mary, but doesn’t the above passage, and those similar prayers/devotions seem a little blasphemous? Does this trouble anyone? “Only pure, only blessed one”?! What about Jesus!? He’s the only pure, only blessed one.

1 Thess 2:18-19

1. For what is all our hope, or joy, or crown of glory? Are not you before our Lord Jesus Christ in his coming? 19. For you are our glory and joy.

 

[adventistnomore]

I’m a non-Catholic Christian, and leading towards Catholicism, but having a really hard time w/the Mary devotion. I’m reading “Hail Holy Queen” by Scott Hahn, and trying to understand the history behind it. As a Protestant, we respect, and honor Mary, as we would any of the apostles, or prophets, or holy ones of God, but we do not devote much attention to her. Our sole focus is God/the trinity. I would like to know when this devotion/praying to the saints began. I don’t see it in the Early Church Father readings I’ve done so far. I’m open to knowing more, thank you

Research the cult of the martyrs: the celebration of the anniversaries of their martyrdoms, and collection of their relics (described in the “Martyrdom of Polycarp,” and the writings of Tertullian). Those are our earliest references.