On Theology of the Holy Spirit

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sunflower15
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Sunflower15

Guest
I am not sure that this is the place for this thread…but after reading a few of the threads under “philosophy,” that should more be under general “theology” in my opinion, I decided this was probably the best place to put this question.

I have heard that the Eastern Churches [not sure whether Eastern Catholic or Orthodox or both] have a more developed theology of the Holy Spirit. The Western Church is for some reason, a little “behind” times on this one.

Our emphasis has traditionally been on the Father and the Son.

I would like to know what is the difference. What is it that the East knows about the Holy Spirit that we haven’t really focused on?
🙂
Thanks.
 
Catholics and Orthodox enjoy the One Faith from the One God. It’s just that we have differenes in our theology.

The Catechism on the Holy Spirit

OrthodoxWiki on the Holy Spirit
Oh, that much I know.

It is precisely the differences [and similarities] regarding theology -particularly in terms of the Holy Spirit- that I’m researching.

It’s just that I have heard a few times that the East has placed more emphasis on the worship of the HS than the West, [traditionally]. It could be more a matter of the devotion rather than the theology.
I don’t know…that’s why I’m asking!😉
 
Oh, that much I know.

It is precisely the differences [and similarities] regarding theology -particularly in terms of the Holy Spirit- that I’m researching.

It’s just that I have heard a few times that the East has placed more emphasis on the worship of the HS than the West, [traditionally]. It could be more a matter of the devotion rather than the theology.
I don’t know…that’s why I’m asking!😉
I think what you’re getting at is the effect of liberal theology in Catholicism: referring to the Holy Spirit as “It” instead of He, more emphasis on Jesus than on His Spirit, etc.
 
The east does emphasize the action of the Holy Spirit far more. It comes with their emphasis on Christology. They have a very Cyrillian approach to Christology and so the soteriology that comes with that is also emphasized. St. Cyril of Alexandria had the same soteriology as St. Athanasius which was essentially that ‘God became man so that man might become god.’ Christ took on the human nature and deified it. The Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son uniting man to Christ and deifying him. The whole point of life according to Eastern Orthodox (and Byzantine Catholic) spirituality is the acquisition of the Holy Spirit as St. Seraphim of Sarov said.
 
… ‘God became man so that man might become god.’ Christ took on the human nature and deified it.
I have never heard this “out loud”…sounds a bit extreme…though I understand it’s referring to the “human nature” and we are still creatures [etc.]. In fact, it seems this was the cause of Lucifer’s rebellion, no? He just couldn’t swallow that! Some humans can’t either!😉

The Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son uniting man to Christ and deifying him.
Wait…I thought that was the Western position, and that the East said “only from the Father”…

The whole point of life according to Eastern Orthodox (and Byzantine Catholic) spirituality is the acquisition of the Holy Spirit as St. Seraphim of Sarov said.
Well, yeah…I think ALL Christians aspire to this…the thing is in the “HOW”…that’s why some end up killing each other…[not the brightest way to “acquire” the HS!]
 
I have never heard this “out loud”…sounds a bit extreme…though I understand it’s referring to the “human nature” and we are still creatures [etc.]. In fact, it seems this was the cause of Lucifer’s rebellion, no? He just couldn’t swallow that! Some humans can’t either!
😉

Almost all of the fathers said something like St. Athanasius said.
Wait…I thought that was the Western position, and that the East said “only from the Father”…
The west says ‘from the Father and the Son’ in the creed. They say it is equivalent to through the Son. According to the east the Father is the origin and source of the Spirit’s existence. Sergius Bulgakov, an Orthodox theologian, said, ‘The love of God is the Holy Spirit, which proceeds from the Father to the Son, abiding upon Him. The Son exists for the Father only in the Holy Spirit which rests on Him, as the Father manifests his love for the Son by the Holy Spirit, which is the unity of life of Father and Son.’ It is at the level of Grace or Energies that the Spirit proceeds through the Son or from the Son.
Well, yeah…I think ALL Christians aspire to this…the thing is in the “HOW”…that’s why some end up killing each other…[not the brightest way to “acquire” the HS!]
Are you talking about the crusades?
 
Almost all of the fathers said something like St. Athanasius said.

The west says ‘from the Father and the Son’ in the creed. They say it is equivalent to through the Son. According to the east the Father is the origin and source of the Spirit’s existence. Sergius Bulgakov, an Orthodox theologian, said, ‘The love of God is the Holy Spirit, which proceeds from the Father to the Son, abiding upon Him. The Son exists for the Father only in the Holy Spirit which rests on Him, as the Father manifests his love for the Son by the Holy Spirit, which is the unity of life of Father and Son.’ It is at the level of Grace or Energies that the Spirit proceeds through the Son or from the Son.

Are you talking about the crusades?
No. Were Christians killing each other in the crusades? I didn’t know this…I meant during wars and persecutions…also with the Protestants…etc.
 
If you really want to know this, read ON THE MYSTAGOGY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT by St. Photius.
 
I have never heard this “out loud”…sounds a bit extreme…though I understand it’s referring to the “human nature” and we are still creatures [etc.]. In fact, it seems this was the cause of Lucifer’s rebellion, no? He just couldn’t swallow that! Some humans can’t either!
😉

This is the view of salvation of the Alexandrian fathers and Byzantine fathers particularly, and the rest to a lesser extent. It is intimately bound with the definitions of the councils of Chalcedon and the next three councils.

Yes, satan tempted Adam and Eve with the idea of being ‘like God’ but the thing is that this temptation was a temptation to autonomy from God. They wished to be gods apart from God. The idea of Theosis or deification in Christianity is that through the Incarnation, death, ressurection and etc. man is saved by God and granted Grace/Energies which is nothing but the divine nature. This Grace/Energy can only be recieved in communion with God. Nor is it a blurring between the creator and the created because it is not the divine Essence. The west has a sense of deification as well.

If you have never read about the Essence/Energies distinction you should do some reading about it so that you have a better understanding of this.

For a better understanding of deification you could read Deification and Grace by Daniel A Keating, who is a western theologian and professor at Ave Maria. His purpose is to show that Deification is a common to both east and west, even if there are some differences.
No. Were Christians killing each other in the crusades? I didn’t know this…I meant during wars and persecutions…also with the Protestants…etc.
There are sad points in Christian history but I don’t think that these are examples of people trying to gain communion with the Holy Spirit.

I tried to edit my last post to add a little to it but I was a minute too late. So here is what I wanted to add.

The Eastern Orthodox (and Byzantine Catholics) tend to view theology as knowledge of God that is acquired through direct contact with God. This direct contact happens through the action of the Holy Spirit in the world. The only way we can know God is through this contact. The EO life is therefore specifically oriented toward the acquisition of the Holy Spirit through the sacraments( esp. Baptism, Chrismation, and the Eucharist), prayer, asceticism and etc. The west on the other hand has a strong emphasis on the use of reason in theology. Theology is defined according to Peter’s statement to be prepared to defend your faith if someone asks. They say that through the use of your reason you can know for certain that God exists, even if your knowledge is mixed with error.

From this different sense of theology proceeds a different ecclesiology. The EO ecclesiology views every member of the Church as a defender and propagator of the faith, especially the monks due to their relationship to God. God is the only one who is infallible and therefore the truth can only be acquired through the acquisition of the Holy Spirit or Theosis/deification. The west on the other hand has an ecclesiology that says the Pope and the bishops gathered in council with the Pope have a charism of infallibility granted by the Holy Spirit irrespective of their spiritual relationship with God.
 
Jimmy,
Thank you VERY much…I am glad that you explain both, because when I hear the Eastern points, I find no disagreement at all. Then, I hear the Western points and I find no disagreement either! It is almost as if I said my mind and my heart are in agreement…as they should…why wouldn’t they be?😉

I want to learn more about the essences / energies. I am trained as a philosopher in the Thomistic tradition, but my faith is more contemplative/mystical …so …

I find great beauty in both ways! Yes, I am starting to realize that us Catholics are all “closet philosophers”…😃

Thanks again…how come you are so knowledgeable of both sides?
 
So “theology” is different from the “Faith”?
Well, theology is more about the nature of God, achieved by reason [at least for the West]. What Jimmy explained is that for the East, it is more of a faith process acquired in the Liturgy & Sacraments.

This makes sense because apparently the East teaches the faith liturgically, while the West teaches the faith through the Catechism, according to what other posters have been teaching me.

I am very glad to be learning from people who understand these topics so well!

Thanks to all!🙂
 
So “theology” is different from the “Faith”?
I believe it is. As the CC and OOC have admitted, though Chalcedonian theology is different from non-Chalcedonian theology, they both profess the same Faith about and in Jesus Christ.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top