On whether we live in a computer simulation and God’s existence

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Catholic apologist Jimmy Akin had an interesting response to somebody who had a question about whether we live in a computer simulation as hypothesised by Elon Musk:

www.ncregister.com

Would It Matter If We’re Living in a Simulation?

The nature of the world is in God’s hands, as it has always been.
www.ncregister.com www.ncregister.com

Jimmy Akin doesn’t believe it would affect God’s existence or the faith even if we do live in a computer simulation.

I haven’t listened to it but he spoke about the topic with Dom Bettinelli about the computer simulation idea here:


What are your thoughts about this?
 
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If we’re in a computer simulation, than God is the programmer.
 
But if we lived in a computer simulation then why would computers be non-existent for millenniums? 🤔
 
If anyone tells me we might be living in a computer simulation then I will ask that person “Do you have any evidence at all that we do?”
 
_Abyssinia said:
The nature of the world is in God’s hands, as it has always been.

Jimmy Akin doesn’t believe it would affect God’s existence or the faith even if we do live in a computer simulation.
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I agree. I don’t think there is necessarily a difference between God creating physical existence and the idea that we live in a simulation. However, i don’t believe that it is in principle possible that we are a product of a computer generated simulation created by intelligent contingent beings living in a real physical universe that we are unaware off. I don’t believe that structuring analogous information in a particular way is enough to create a true intellect.
 
I don’t believe that we’re literally inside of a computer; however, I’ve long theorized that we could use computers to understand how our Universe operates on a smaller scale.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

As we’re still discovering, the Universe operates on certain Command Codes
 
Cruciferi said:
As we’re still discovering, the Universe operates on certain Command Codes
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An anomaly was found in earlier simulations. A man that could rearrange the code according to his will.
 
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I don’t believe that either, but I do like your hypothesis even if I don’t necessarily agree with it, partially because I don’t know enough about it
 
It is very interesting.

Wake-Up Call Changes Priest

Father Steven Scheier almost died in 1985. His second chance led him to become a better priest — and understand God’s mercy, and the love of the Blessed Mother, more fully. He appeared on Mother Angelica's show in EWTN in the 1990s.
www.ncregister.com www.ncregister.com

I watched Father Steven Scheier in a couple of videos and originally on EWTN
with Mother Angelica. He seems very credible and honest to me.
Not included in the article I put a link; he says we don’t realize we live in the shadow world;
the world after this life is more real and concrete.
In The Holy Bible, our ‘plane of existence’ is called “valley of decision,” “valley of tears,” and “valley of the shadow of death.”
I do understand that the Creation stories, Adam and Eve before a plant was planted on the earth; and the 7 Days are poetic God is Creator theological not to be taken overly literal literature.
But I do think that we live in a shared contingent ‘shadow’ or extremely lucid dream reality that is not beyond the limitless power of God to place us because we needed to be here. I think God knowing all things knows we each needed to see the result of freewill allowed not to conform to God’s Perfect Loving Harmony for everyone.
This not not limit God’s Power for Jesus Christ to come to us in this plane of existence to Save the willing to receive the Grace and Mercy of repentance.
I do think this plane of existence purpose to separate The Light from the darkness is coming to a conclusion soon. I’m close to 60, it certainly is coming to a conclusion for me.
What started me to think this? And I certainly do not know for sure. It was the question
of how can All Powerful, All Knowing, All Seeing God allow such things as child abuse and mass murder, of now mostly children? So I had this devout speculation,
that we live in an extremely lucid ‘imaginary’ plane of existence, similar to how the square root of negative numbers are handled. That in the ‘concrete’ plane of existence
there is no such thing as child abuse.
Of course, I will not know until by and by; as the song says.
 
Which was itself just the millionth iteration of Gnosticism, with the machines as demiurge.
 
lisaandlena said:
If we’re living in a computer simulation, (which is entirely possible) then Mr Akin is wrong in saying that it doesn’t make any difference. It makes a huge difference, because if we’re living in a computer simulation, then the past may never have actually existed. Which means that Christ never actually lived. Which means that Catholicism is based on something that never actually happened.

So if the whole story of Christ’s life, death, and resurrection was made up by a clever computer programmer, then Catholics are entrusting their salvation to a lie.

P.S. What the heck was I suspended for this time? These forums have gone beyond ridiculous.
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I don’t know enough about the simulation hyothesis to provide you with an answer, so perhaps someone else here can?! But Jimmy Akin seems to have looked at the simulation hypothesis issue thoroughly and if he believed that Jesus’ historical existence would have been effected if we live in a simulation, I’m sure he would have raised it.
 
I have not read or listened to Atkin’s comments, but I think it is an absurd proposition. It is an article of faith that God creates ex nihilo. To imagine God as some type of really advanced computer programmer is a really poor image of God, He is so much greater. Many Intelligent design adherents also minimize God in their arguments.
 
A computer is an artifact of man made by his intelligence from pre-existing materials. Analogously, the whole of creation is an artifact of God made by God’s intelligence though created out of nothing. However, a computer is not a living thing and it is made out of a number of inanimate substances and processes of nature. The inanimate world of creation is on the lowest rung of the perfection of things and grades of being which are followed by living things the first which are plants followed by animals and finally human beings in the corporeal world who possess an immortal spiritual soul with the spiritual faculties of intellect and will by which they are principally made in the image and likeness of God. Following human beings are the angels who are pure spirits and so they are by nature most like God and more perfect than humans. So, animate or living things are more like God than inanimate things and the highest form of created life is found in angels and human beings who have understanding and free will from which springs love and this form of life is most like God’s own life. Computers are neither living nor do they understand nor have love nor are free.
 
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Positing that we are in a computer simulation is daft I think.

How is our universe in any way a computer. How is this world alone like a computer. If we’re in a computer system then it doesn’t feel or look like a computer system therefore it isn’t a computer system.

It’s a universe. Does a computer look like a universe? Do the inside simulations self organise and show autonomous behaviour to such an extent that they look feel smell sound like the world we inhabit? Computers can’t even simulate the worlds weather systems that accurately let alone weather and all other systems together.

No. It’s just another attempt by a creature to somehow reduce existence to the size of its intellect. With respect and in my opinion.
 
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My post was certainly not an agreement on living in a computer simulation as our plain of existence.
We just need to know we must decide to accept God’s Mercy or not.
Have an authentic cooperating with God’s Grace or not.
Jesus Christ will come for the Day of Judgement; or we go to the hereafter to The Judgement Seat; where we each will be Divinely Impartially Judged. That is all that matters;
live to give love away selflessly as one can.
“Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the Day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.” - Joel 3:14
“They passed by the valley of weeping and they have made it a dwelling place, also blessings will cover The Lawgiver.” - Psalm 84:6
“Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.” - Psalm 23:4
Peace.
 
I have skin and hair and a barber who also has a life and wears microbes like me, etc etc whilst the trees grow and the worms worm. Some computer system.

Anyway, I disagree. Were Newton’s mechanistic imaginings correct?

Also, God is real, no computer system could possibly simulate spirit.
 
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lisaandlena said:
I don’t believe that Jimmy Akin made much of an effort at all to refute the simulation hypothesis. He simply assumed a strawman argument and then refuted it. But the simulated reality theory is far too complex, and the iterations far too numerous to be dismissed so easily.

For example, we could be living in a “ Matrix ” type simulation, where we have actual physical bodies somewhere that are plugged into a machine, or we could have no actual physical existence at all, but are merely computer generated minds living in a computer generated world. And the computer could be simulating 7.7 billion separate minds, or it could be simulating only one…yours. The nature of the simulation could be controlled by the programmer, or it could be a byproduct of the computer generated mind itself.

The possibilities are endless. So to take Jimmy Akin’s argument as representing a comprehensive refutation of simulation theory is a bit naive. He simply attempts to refute one particular scenario while leaving the vast majority of possibilities unaddressed.
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Did you listen to the podcast? Akin discusses the simulation hypothesis a lot more comprehensively than in the NCregister article I posted and he talks about the faith element.

In any of the simulation claims in your post, I don’t see how any of these would result in conflicting with the existence of God.

A computer surely can’t just exist out of nothing, especially a computer as complex that could simulate such seeming complexity.

The necessity for a First Cause remains even if the simulation hypothesis is true.
 
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tafan2 said:
I have not read or listened to Atkin’s comments, but I think it is an absurd proposition. It is an article of faith that God creates ex nihilo. To imagine God as some type of really advanced computer programmer is a really poor image of God, He is so much greater. Many Intelligent design adherents also minimize God in their arguments.
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True. However i don’t think it is in principle impossible that God created a simulation (not a computer generated one), after all we are only a finite analogy of God’s act of existence and are very natures are artificial, so there needn’t necessarily be a difference. I only reject the idea that some human-like being created a computer generated simulation in which we now find ourselves. I think that’s impossible.
 
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