Once and for all Sacrifice and Mass

[mikeledes]

Protestants seem not to understand that the Mass is not a re-crucifixion of Christ, but a re-presentation of the same Sacrifice that occured at Calvary. They seems to think that, whether bloody or unbloody, Hebrews clearly states that there shall be no more sacrifices. One way I thought of explaining it was that in Mass we are transported back to Calavary. It’s like a mystical and mysterious form of time travel. Sort of like a time machine. What Bible verses can I use to show that the Mass does not contradict Hebrews? What aspects of Protestant theology can be used to explain the Mass, if there are any?

Thanks and God Bless

 

[6glargento]

Protestants seem not to understand that the Mass is not a re-crucifixion of Christ, but a re-presentation of the same Sacrifice that occured at Calvary. They seems to think that, whether bloody or unbloody, Hebrews clearly states that there shall be no more sacrifices. One way I thought of explaining it was that in Mass we are transported back to Calavary. It’s like a mystical and mysterious form of time travel. Sort of like a time machine. What Bible verses can I use to show that the Mass does not contradict Hebrews? What aspects of Protestant theology can be used to explain the Mass, if there are any?

Thanks and God Bless

well first of all, the whole idea of the mass cannot contradict hebrews because, there truly is no more sacrifice of sin. the sacrifice at the alter is the same exact sacrifice at calvery except it is presented in an unbloody manner. If we claimed that it was a new sacrifice then they would have a point.

Here is a verse that you could share with them.

Malachi 1:11 - this is a prophecy of a pure offering that will be offered in every place from the rising of the sun to its setting. Thus, there will be only one sacrifice, but it will be offered in many places around the world. This prophecy is fulfilled only by the Catholic Church in the Masses around the world, where the sacrifice of Christ which transcends time and space is offered for our salvation. If this prophecy is not fulfilled by the Catholic Church, then Malachi is a false prophet.

 

[mikeledes]

What does it mean that Calvary is being re-presented in an unbloody manner? Wasn’t Calvary a bloody event? I don’t understand.

Thanks and God Bless

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

What does it mean that Calvary is being re-presented in an unbloody manner? Wasn’t Calvary a bloody event? I don’t understand.

Thanks and God Bless

The priest repeats what Jesus did at the Last Supper.
However, at least normally, the priest does not then go on to martyrdom. The sacrifice of the Mass is a symbolic sacrifice.

 

[cathlicnlovinit]

Hey all,

I have also heard comparisons to the Passover Meal. It was a re-presentation of the sacrificed Passover lamb. In other words, in order to have the long ago Passover sacrifice personally applicable to you, you participated in and partook of the lamb. From my understanding, the Eucharistic Lamb works the same way. While Christ’s gift on the Cross was redemptive for all, to aid in the Sacrifice’s graces being applicable to each of us we participate and partake of the Lamb.

Please correct me if I am wrong. Also, isn’t there a verse somewhere in the Bible that alludes to or directly mentions a sacrifice being offered in His name all around the world? That I know of, the Mass/Divine Liturgy is the only continuous sacrifice being offered, worldwide.

Heather

 

[gelsbern]

The sacrifice of the Mass is one of God’s miracles that we are allowed to participate in. To understand it, one has to think about time a little differently. What I mean is that during the sacrifice of the Mass we are not re-creating the past, we are actually there in the past at the foot of the cross at the exact same time Christ is being crucified. The sacrifice of the Mass is outside of time. When we look we see the priest offering the sacrifice, but what Christ saw when he looked out from the cross was you and I and everyone else at every mass, past, present and future. He saw all there at that single point in time because during that brief moment during the liturgy of the eucharist, we are there at that single point in time. That is the miracle of the Mass.

There is a protestant hymn that asks “Were you there when they crucified our Lord?” The answer catholics can give is: Yes, I was there, every time I am at mass.

 

[RyanL]

What in Protestant theology would help to explain this?

Well…all Protestants (of which I’m aware) believe that when they are saved they are truly washed in the Blood of the Lamb. This once-for-all event, which occured at a past time, is actually and truly applied to them in the present.

I.e., they already believe that you can be in the present and still be joined into the completed sacrifice of Christ which occurred 2000 years ago. When Christ’s sacrifice is applied in their lives, they do not believe that Christ is somehow re-sacrificed.

Same idea, only in the mass it’s a substantial participation.

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[John_Henry]

Protestants seem not to understand that the Mass is not a re-crucifixion of Christ, but a re-presentation of the same Sacrifice that occured at Calvary. They seems to think that, whether bloody or unbloody, Hebrews clearly states that there shall be no more sacrifices. One way I thought of explaining it was that in Mass we are transported back to Calavary. It’s like a mystical and mysterious form of time travel. Sort of like a time machine. What Bible verses can I use to show that the Mass does not contradict Hebrews? What aspects of Protestant theology can be used to explain the Mass, if there are any?

There are several things one might attempt to explain to a Protestant to help them with the idea of sacrifice in the Lord’s Supper:

1. Sacrifice does not necessitate death. You can see this in the OT where there was a sacrifice called the “waive offering” in which the priest waived certain things in the air as a symbolic sacrifice to God. You can also see this is the various NT verses that speak of believers offering “spiritual sacrifices”.
2. The Lord’s Supper, quite apart from the concept of the Real Presence, is also a sacrifice. Why? The things which represent the body and blood of Christ are separate. The Lord’s Supper obviously symbolizes the separation of the body from the blood of Christ.
3. Protestants love “looking at the Greek”. Encourage them to look at how the Greek words translated “do” and “remembrance” are used in the Greek OT. They will discover that they are invariably used in sacrificial contexts.

 

[cathlicnlovinit]

What in Protestant theology would help to explain this?

Well…all Protestants (of which I’m aware) believe that when they are saved they are truly washed in the Blood of the Lamb. This once-for-all event, which occured at a past time, is actually and truly applied to them in the present.

I.e., they already believe that you can be in the present and still be joined into the completed sacrifice of Christ which occurred 2000 years ago. When Christ’s sacrifice is applied in their lives, they do not believe that Christ is somehow re-sacrificed.

Same idea, only in the mass it’s a substantial participation.

God Bless,
RyanL

This idea is great in theory but I don’t think that many protestants except for theologians/scholars think about the meaning and value of sacrifice in the Jewish culture/religion and how that then translates into Christian practice or belief. I think most just think of Christ’s sacrifice in terms of He died so that I may live eternally. That action has allowed me to be saved. And that is where it stops. Where as in most Catholic theology it is presented that worship includes sacrifice and sacrifice includes substantial participation as in the Passover meal and the Eucharist.

 

[rr1213]

I would guess that many (most?) Protestants that have thought about the Catholic position regarding the Mass would (incorrectly) understand that position as meaning that Christ is sacrificed again…and again…during the Mass. Naturally, Protestants reject this view point. See for example one passage from the Eucharist service from Rite I of the Episcopal Book of Common Prayer:

“All glory be to thee, Almighty God, our heavenly Father, for
that thou, of thy tender mercy, didst give thine only Son Jesus
Christ to suffer death upon the cross for our redemption; who
made there, by his one oblation of himself once offered, a full,
perfect, and sufficient sacrifice, oblation, and satisfaction, for
the sins of the whole world; and did institute, and in his holy
Gospel command us to continue, a perpetual memory of that
his precious death and sacrifice, until his coming again.”
(Emphasis added)

Now, it could be that Catholics could even accept the language set forth above because Christ WAS offered only once for our redemption. Still, while I might be wrong on this, I suspect that the language used in the BCP is there at least in part to respond to the Catholic position.

It was only after readings some posts and references in these forums that I learned some of the nuances of the Catholic understanding of the Mass as being a re-presentation of Calvary. FWIW, the “time warp” explanation, although probably irreverent, helped me to at least grasp the concept.

BTW, to show the ambiguity often found in the BCP (including ambiguity that supports a Catholic understanding of the Eucharist), see the response below. Note the present tense of the word “is” as opposed to using the word “was”.

“[Alleluia.] Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us;
Therefore let us keep the feast. [Alleluia.]”
[Emphasis added]

 

[gelsbern]

…
It was only after readings some posts and references in these forums that I learned some of the nuances of the Catholic understanding of the Mass as being a re-presentation of Calvary. FWIW, the “time warp” explanation, although probably irreverent, helped me to at least grasp the concept.

…

There is a good article here, and I just discovered this from googling to try and back up what I was saying, they even used the same hymn I referenced:

catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9901fea2.asp

And I’ll quote the relevant (and not irreverent) section.

The difference between Christ’s death on the cross (the event) and the Eucharist (the sacrament) is the difference between history and liturgy. The historical event happened once and it will never again be repeated (Heb. 9:25-26). The liturgical sacrament, however, not only keeps the past from being forgotten; through it the Eucharist of history—Jesus’ passion and death—is made present again. We are brought to the foot of the cross and invited to witness with Mary, John, and the holy women. **The old spiritual asks the question, “Were you there when they crucified my Lord?” Through our participation in the sacrament of the Eucharist we can answer: “I was there at the foot of the cross.” **

Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross is concluded as an event, but through the Holy Spirit it continues in time sacramentally and in eternity mystically. This insight provides the key to understanding John’s heavenly vision of the resurrected Jesus, who appeared as “a Lamb standing as if it had been slaughtered” (Rev. 5:6). While his act of physical death will never be repeated, Jesus’ act of total self-giving to the Father for us (Rom. 8:32) continues eternally in Love—that is, the Holy Spirit.

 

[JimG]

Yes, it is said that the Mass is a re-presentation of the sacrifice of Calvary. A re-presentation is a making present again. There truly is only one sacrifice. And that one sacrifice is made present whenever and wherever Mass is offered.

It might help to remember that in receiving the Eucharist, each communicant receives one and the same Christ, whole and entire. This is quite literally true. Christ is not multiplied. Only the appearances are multiplied. I don’t receive a different Jesus than you, or only a piece of him. We all receive the same person and become present at the same event.

Because we each receive the one and only Christ, we are truly in union with one another and with his one sacrifice.

 

[Tonks40]

Yes, it is said that the Mass is a re-presentation of the sacrifice of Calvary. A re-presentation is a making present again.

This cannot be emphasized enough to those non-Catholics who think we sacrifice Jesus over and over again at Mass.